Occasional puff of oily smoke on over run - 1.6 k

[guitarguy]

Greetings all.

 

I have a '05 1.6 K (120), had it 4 months - I did my first track day a week or so ago (Hethel) and was a little concerned to have the occasional puff of oily smoke on over-run when pushed hard (with accompanying oily smell). Have noticed this a couple of times on the road and suspected in may be a slight oil overfill on the seemingly rather vague 'dip while running' technique with the K (I understand the breather is recycled back into the inlet manifold which could explain the oil??). I had Phil one of the ARDS instructors riding with me at the time who confirmed no oil loss, or power drop etc. (I had the dipstick level on the max). We also ran it by Merrick (the 2nd ARDS instructor) - who suggested possible inlet valve oil seals as a possible 'most likely' scenario at that point...

 

To cut a long story short I let the oil level drop to 2/3 between min and max on the cross hatch dip stick and that seemed to cure it - it ran as clean as a whistle for the rest of the day with no more smoke. It's almost as if it found it's own level. Does anyone else have any similar experiences with this engine? Is this a common occurrence? Does that explanation ring true?? Any thoughts welcome...

[Mick Day]

What were your oil temperatures before & after the oil level change?

 

Do you have an Apollo tank/dry sump?

[guitarguy]

Wet sump, no apollo tank, no catch tank....

 

*********

'Pass' on oil temp/pressure question - first track day pushing the car so not clued in to what to expect... All gauges remained in the realms of 'normal' at all times through the day.... No significant difference that I spotted before or after it 'settled down'.

 

I'm assuming the (gradual) drop on the dip stick to 2/3 of max came about through oil venting into the inlet and burning off...?

 

It sounds to me like fitting an apollo tank may be the solution if I intend to track regularly?? (for all round engine good health...).

 

Fitting of a catch tank has also been mentioned...(?)

[Fil M]

Whilst I dont have one myself because I have not tracked my 7 as yet I did research this a while back. The general view was that an 'appollo' aka catch tank is desireable particularly on a k series. The sump is shallow and the whole unit is canted over to fit under the bonnet. This gives rise to the risk of oil surge and frothing which may be part of the symptoms you described. I am no expert but would be happier with a catch tank

[Graham King]

GG, I run a modified 1.8k and do track days. You should regard an Apollo as the minimum you require to do trackdays, a dry sump is the best option but is expensive and difficult to get hold of now for a k. I wouldn't be doing trackdays without an apollo. On right handers you will suffer oil surge away from the pickup and the oil pressure will drop. The apollo does not stop this but will remove the air bubbles from the oil that result from the crank thrashing the oil as it sits in it.

 

I certainly don't have a catch tank so I'm not convinced you need one but it won't do any harm, the only time I have seen oil smoke is when it is overfilled.

 

I agree setting the level is difficult but I always try and run mine at the maximum as otherwise the pressure drops both on right handers and under heavy acceleration as the oil goes away from the pickup which is exacerbated if the level is low.

 

Graham.

 

Edited by - Graham King on 26 Sep 2013 15:58:22

[guitarguy]

Thanks guys,

 

FM, I'd understood an Apollo Tank and a Catch Tank to be two quite different things (the former being a 'swirl tower' to allow air to separate from the oil 'froth', which increases your oil capacity by a couple of litres by just being there. A catch tank I believe, is just that, a plastic or ally bottle on the end of the breather pipe to catch any oil ejected by the pressurising of the crank case - which in the K is fed back into the inlet hence my problem.) I stand to be corrected, but I think Graham's following comment partially verifies that...

 

Thanks GK... I think that is what I was expecting to hear and reinforces things as I understand it.... I think I need to be looking into this - I'll search the forum for tips and advice. (Is that a reasonably easy DIY mod, for the mechanically rusty but reasonable competent?? - I've had the car 4 months, only just being able to start tinkering. Any thoughts on that welcome...)

 

 

 

 

[Mick Day]

You are correct on the difference between a catch tank & Apollo (oil/air separator) tank.

 

When I had a wet sump K the oil temperature would drop 10 or so degrees when the oil level was just out of reach of the crank. I always felt more comfortable with this as I believed this was better than aerated oil. Even with the Apollo I always filled to this level.

 

My guess is that oil from the top of the engine is being ingested via the breather to the inlet manifold. Maybe worse on left handers? Solution: route this breather to a catch tank & block the tapping into the inlet manifold. Secondly fit an Apollo, modify the sump gasket & ditch the sump foam.

 

Fitting the Apollo tank is not difficult but correctly tightening some connections can be a tad challenging.

 

If Caterham can no longer supply then I'm sure there must be other alloy fabricators who can make you one. Maybe try Brise, or go for a dry sump installation from Pace?

 

Or better still fit a dry sump. I believe Pace can probably supply.

[Fil M]

It seems I am the confused one ... sorry if i misled you ... I think I assumed the apollo tank was a swirl tower that caught the air bubbles and spun them out in a catchy swirly type of way

[Graham King]

Fil, you are essentially correct, the used oil enters the bottom of the Apollo, it is "spun" round the tank cylinder. The oil (less air) exits through the top hose whilst the air bubbles are vented into the crankcase. There is no need for a catch tank with an Apollo.

 

Graham.

[oilyhands]

Pretty sure the oil enters the Apollo at the top connection and falls to the bottom , separated air exits via the top connection and de-aerated oil is fed from the bottom of the tank to the filter. This way gravity ensures the air goes up and the oil goes down and that any air still in the tank is excluded from the run to the filter/bearings.

 

I could of course be wrong.. 😬

 

Oily

 

Edited by - oilyhands on 27 Sep 2013 11:05:08

[Peter G]

Mr Oily wrong?????

 

Surely not (and anyway I agree with him, how on earth can oil rise up to the top of the tank?)

[mav]

You're not wrong oily. Oil goes in the top and out the bottom...

[Roadsport06]

I wouldn't touch the track without the Apollo. A mechanical oil pressure gauge will show you the lack of pressure on corners.