R300 K series won't start - NOW RUNNING!

[BenF]

After a recent blat to France, I got back home, cleaned the car and checked it over. A week later, I tried to start it and the engine would turn over but would not fire. Analysis of the problem so far is:

 

1. Fuel in the tank. Yes, there's 1/3 left.

2. Is the battery OK? It's an 18 month old Banner, it turns over the engine quickly and seems healthy. I took it out of the car and charged it fully before trying to start again. Still no luck.

3. Is a spark getting to the engine? The plugs were sooty (they've done 20k and my R300 does run quite rich). However, I do get a spark when turning the engine over. I decided to replace the plugs anyway (only £6 on ebay for the set), but the car still won't fire.

4. I checked the fuses for the fuel pump and ECU and both are OK. The topmost relay was a bit loose, so I made sure it (and the other relays) were properly seated. Still no luck.

 

It has the MBE ECU. R300 so no IACV to troubleshoot.

 

I checked the resistance of the following components:

Water temp sender: 2400 ohms at 20degC

Airbox temp sender: 2270 ohms at 20degC

Throttle pot: 440 ohms at idle throttle position

 

Can anyone give any advice on what next to check? By process of elimination, I'm wondering if it's the fuel system or something with the wiring. Can anyone give me some targeted advice on what to check next?

 

Thanks, Ben

 

Edited by - BenF on 28 Jun 2012 20:01:11

 

Edited by - BenF on 2 Jul 2012 21:40:59

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Are you getting fuel at the fuel rail on the engine ? Remove the return hose at the front of the fuel rail and cover the end of the rail while someone turns on the ignition with the immobiliser deactivated. No need to crank engine - ignition on will start fuel pump which should fill fuel rail. Do it carefully and only for a second or two !

[Mr Locust]

Are the plugs wet after cranking?

Is the fuel pump running?

[BenF]

To update:

 

Ian, I just removed the return hose and did as you said. The fuel pump does its usual whirr when the ignition is turned and a glug of fuel came out.

 

Also, I've pressed the top of the inertia switch to reset it.

[Bio]

Hi Ben

Do you hear the fuel pump prime the system and then stop?

Buy some Easy Start spray from a motor shop and give a little sray into the induction with the filter off and the try again. If it runs for a short while it must be fuel related.

Did any engine wiring get wet when you cleaned the car?

Try to reset the fuel cut off switch.

 

John

 

[Boris]

Hi Ben,

 

2 things spring to mind (both unlikely)

If you've not played with anything since it last ran

 

1. Timing belt. (broken or jumped)

2. Fuel contamination (I had issues with my k series running very badly, since it was after an upgrade though DVA/Northampton Motorsport had made an error, turned out to be Tesco's fuel. Maybe fuel is the issue here, also during upgrade found the fuel line from the bulk head to the throttle body(s) had perished (on the underside, out of view) could be sucking air in. If its the fuel line Earls at Silverstone will make one up using the old unions.

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Easy DIY fix - any of the four flexible fuel hoses can be replaced with new 8mm bore petrol hose and fuel hose screw clamps - just a few Pounds from any car spares shop. On the one from the steel pipe through the tunnel to the rear of the engine fuel rail, simply cut through the crimps on the hose ends to reveal the unions underneath.

[BenF]

Hi John,

 

I will get some Easystart and try that. Inertia switch has been reset. Fuel should be getting to the engine, as proved by the test suggested by Ian.

 

The wiring did not get wet when I washed the car... at least, no wetter than on the French trip itself.

 

Kev

 

I really hope it's not the timing belt. It was replaced just under 2 years ago by oily so I would be amazed if that was the problem.

 

The fuel line under the throttle bodies looks in good condition. I do wonder about fuel contamination. Is there any way of checking the injectors for contamination? To answer Mr Locust, the plugs are not really wet after cranking.....

[Boris]

If its not firing and the plugs are not wet, you have to wonder if fuels getting in.

I hate easy start but if that makes it fire then fuel supply is the issue.

Chech the fuel line from the tunnel to the throttle bodies ( not under the bodies) mine was really bad when turned over, both Dave and Troy said it was common.

[Boris]

Plugs £6 on eBay? Have to wonder ❗

I have a new set at work (Blisworth) you could call in and collect, can't deliver as I'm n Provence.

 

Personally, I'd check timing belt, drain fuel, put old plugs back in, re-fuel from a non supermarket supplier, try again.

 

If no good, take it to Troy, my trailers free if you need it.

[BenF]

Hi Kev

 

I'm pretty sure the new plugs are OK, they are genuine new NGK plugs of identical spec. Having turned the engine over for a while, the plugs are damp now and do smell of fuel, but it's not overpowering.

 

The cam belt is still intact, I could not easily tell if it has skipped a tooth, but it looks unlikely.

 

It could be dodgy fuel, although the fuel was good enough to get me home. Plus, I don't think John and Ed have had problems (having filled up at identical times).

 

Anyway, my investigations will continue after I have some Easystart.

[Bio]

The plugs should be wet if cranking but not firing. There is a multi pin grey plug under the throttle bodies towards the front did this get wet?

Try a little spray of fuel into the open throttles.

If you leave the fuel rail and injectors connected but remove the assembly from the induction and put a sheet of paper over the end of the injectors and try to start the car the injectors should squirt fuel.

[Bio]

Just a thought....Remove the dizzy cap and check the condition of the rotor arm and cap contacts including the centre contact.

[BenF]

Checked dizzy cap and rotor arm, condition all OK.

 

Will try some more on the fuel investigations this weekend

 

Thanks

[Markiebabes]

Ben

I would try a new rotor arm ,Nigel had a similar problem you couldn't tell by just looking at it!

[Markiebabes]

I've a spare dizzy and rotor arm if you want to try those ?

[BenF]

Hi Mark

 

Thanks for the offer, but I'll just buy a spare dizzy cap and rotor arm myself. After all, they're good spares to have.

 

Are they standard Rover parts, available from Halford or a motor factors?

 

Ben

 

 

[charlie_pank]

I'm sure they're standard parts. why not take the old ones with you to check?

 

when you're there, get some easi-start, your experiment with the fuel lines has proved the fuel pump is running, but not that the pressure is high enough or the injectors are delivering enough fuel...

[Markiebabes]

No worries Ben

I got mine from eliseparts.com they are standard k series afaik 😬

But halfords or motor factor should sell them

 

[bobt]

To rule out the dizzy, disconnect the feed HT lead from it and jam a spark plug in the end. Rest the spark plug against the block or bell housing and crank the engine. If it sparks then it's the dizzy, if it doesn't then it's the coil, or HT feed lead or LT circuit.

[bobt]

I should add...

To test the LT circuit, disconnect the LT plug from

the coil and place a volt meter across the terminals inside the plug on the end of the lead. When you crank the engine you should see the voltage rise and fall (easier with an analog meter)

 

You can test the LT and HT paths within the coil with a resistance check.

The LT will be much lower than the HT.

Any short or lack of continuity indicates a problem.

 

 

[BenF]

bobt, yes, I do get a spark

 

If I change the rotor arm and dizzy cap, it's more out of desperation... there is not much else to go on now!

[bobt]

Ok thats good, but just because you get a spark with the plug out of the engine doesn't always mean you get a spark accross the terminals within the combustion chamber. It requires alot more energy for the spark to jump the gap under a compression cycle than it does at atmospheric pressure.

 

Its not an uncommon failure mode for the HT circuit within the coil to burn through its insulator in effect shorting a large proportion of the HT coil. It will still spark on the bench but the voltage is very much reduced. This is why a resistance check of the HT circuit of the coil is always work doing.

[BenF]

Thanks for everyone's advice and help

 

I sorted the problem this evening. I checked the big grey loom connector below the throttle bodies (thanks for the tip, John) and one of the wires had come out of the plug.

 

A makeshift fix (attaching the wire to a bullet connector and sticking it in the relevant hole) and the car fired up no problem.

 

I guess I'm best off soldering the wire back to the pin. Not easy considering the pin is recessed deep into the outside of the connector. Should I try to push the pin out from inside the plug? I'd rather not, I'm afraid of destroying it in the process!

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

These plug/socket connectors normally have a release tag in the plastic body that lets you withdraw the pin. Split the connector and look for a hole next to the pin.