Griff Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Usual story: nice drive, stop somewhere flat where nobody's around, turn engine off, stry to restart, click, damn, click... I have the Magneton starter with solenoid under, all head shielded. I've not yet done the relay bypass but that's on the cards (had the problem on a previouys car so know that drill). Battery is only a month old, voltage at the terminals is fine (about 13.5V when running) so alternator looks good, earths all look good so far as I can tell. However, there is not enough juice in the battery to start the car when it's fully cooled and get low voltage warning on the Stack confirmed by multimeter.This is what I'm curious about since I'd expect the car to start again when cold, or at least make some effort to engage. But all I get is the usual click, click and that's a full 8 hours since returning home. Would it be normal for the click syndrome to also flatten the battery? So it's now back on the trickle charger whilst I head off for a few days. Which gives me some time to ponder on other possible causes or contribitors before I start hacking into the loom when I return. Any thoughts or advice gratefully received. Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowerman Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Griff.... Is the battery always on trickle charge when not in use? If it is the battery will have enough power to start and run for a few hours, but lose power along the way so won't be able to turn over, but have enough to engage solenoid... By the sounds of it the alternator is not kicking out enough volts, usually around 14.2v. Once you return, bet it starts..... Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Hmmmm.... Had to call the RAC today for the first time ever with the click. Parked in Stow-on-the-Wold briefly mid-blat, and it wouldn't restart, just got the click, for the first time ever. Left it 20 mins or so to cool down and tried again and still just a click. Tried rocking the car and still no good, so made the call. Chap arrived after about 40 minutes, and the car started first press of the button He was good about it, and tested the battery with a Midtronics Tester (these are the best in the business) and alternator output - everything OK. Once I was home, tried re-starting it again from (very) hot and it was fine I have been having some problems with starting (takes a while to get all 4 cylinders firing) and when cold (fast throttle inputs make the engine almost die for the first 3-4 miles), and wonder if its all connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Mine had an intermittent K click problem so I did the relay mod - and still had the K click! It was the terminal on the solenoid corroding through and not allowing enough current through - eventually it snapped off! I just soldered the wire on to the solenoid and it has been fine since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 13.5v isn't right for a good alternator. Should be as above a little more than 14v. Might be worth check voltage at the alternator before doing anything else. If it's nearer the expected 14.2v then you have a bad connection somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 No harm in doing the relay bypass I suppose, but I will strip all the other connections when I get back to eliminate them first. I would have thought if youget a voltage increase over and above what the battery kicks out it would indicate there is some charge going to the battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Some may not be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I'm clearly going to have to delve more deeply. 13.5V was from memory, but checking around it seems that 13.8V to 14.2V is about the ideal range, measured at the alternator. Memory and driver age taken into consideration, I'm "pretty sure" I never got close to 14V but then that was from the Stack voltage reading so might not be representative or what's happening at the alternator terminals. Assuming the worst, anyone know the part number for the K-series alternator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil M Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello Griff, I joined the K click club today. I did get a bit of warning ....the red ignition light was full on at a set of traffic lights (4 miles out only). Drove it to a nearby car park. Switched off and ...click! Off with the bonnet . Belt ok but connection of the wire to the alternator at the plug was quite wobbly and felt I may have a dodgy connection there. Bump started her and only just got her home .. as I went the red ignition light flickered on and off and the car began to misfire nearer home accompanied with instruments failing as the battery died off. As it stands I have spliced in a new length of wire at the alternator by the plug (it cannot be completely disembled) and the battery is on charge as I type. If it is still faulty I shall follow the meter readings given on hear to check it. You are not alone!!!! Fil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesG Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I joined the "k click clique" myself yesterday! I've almost completed my xflow-K series conversion, and after removing the spark plugs to crank over and raise some oil pressure before (attempting) starting, I did 2 cranks (perfect), switched off (let starter cool), then click! My Red Top battery is fully charged, but I was also using a slave battery from my van with jump leads, so plenty of capacity. I turned the engine over using deep-offset 22mm spanner, found the 'easy stroke' ie., non-compression, and then she turned over again! For 2 cranks! I tried shorting across from the solenoid terminal to the live terminal, and nothing. Took it to my electrician this morning for a new solenoid, will report back later! Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil M Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I have replaced the charged up battery and she starts up but the red ignition light burns brightly. Before fire up the battery tested 12.6v so fully charged. On firing up the voltage went down! ... on with the headlight and down it went again to 12.24...an under charge! Battery charged up ok, starter worked ok ...I have an alternator ralated problem I think so im off to delve into the archives .... mask and snorkel on ... im going fishing for an answer! Fil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hi Guys, I am an ex member of the click club . I did all the solutions with some brief respite, including changing the solenoid. Eventually I bit the bullet and purchased a Brise starter motor. What a difference No click, relay removed, FIA switch back in circuit, replacement solenoid sold and I have a spare battery. Not sure how you assess the condition of the starter motor but I wish I had before started on the click journey. Hope this helps Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesG Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Ok, phoned Brise today and they're sending me a new solenoid (we sell lots of these sir) for £38 + vat. They did advise me to fabricate a heatshield, but don't wrap the solenoid completely; this exacerbates the problem as you need the heat to dissipate out of the solenoid. To only confuse matters; I bench-tested the starter in a vice using a 12v booster pack and a little fly lead to excite the solenoid terminal, and the bloody thing worked every time! I don't think I'm getting a full 12v through the engine loom, so I'll test that before stripping the starter. I'm going to do the relay mod aswell, bypassing the mfru altogether. Again, will report back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil M Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Due to going to Silverstone for the next few days I didnt have time to fix my Alternator myself so took it to Tom New who did a great job and also dealt with some dodgy wiring at the same time...10/10 again. We had an interesting chat about the click and problems emanating from heat radiating from the exhaust under the bonnet. He is very seven experienced! In his opinion the standard Caterham exhaust is not close enough to the starter/Alternator to cook them. Primarily problems occur when an upgraded exhaust is fitted which with the larger pipes run closer to the elecricals. You can heat shield them in various ways but suggested that a long term and fully effective method is to have them ceramic plated! Its about £350 ... in a colour of your choosing. Apparently its that effective you can virtually hold a primary afte the engine is switched off! there is a firm in Andove that does the work. thought I would add that to the mix in case someone felt the urge Fil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richy Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Is that £350 per pipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fil M Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 No thats for all four tucked under the bonnet. Apparently they use ceramic on the pipes of performance cars including F1 to control heat radiation. If I get my exhaust upgraded I would definitely consider it. If it saves the heat cooking an alternator and starter just once its paid for itself! If they can be done the same colour as your car you could have a very tasty under bonnett layout along with some silicon pipework! Bonus! Come that day I will have to research it. Fil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 My primaries are ceramic coated (by the previous owner) and I have to say they do look good and haven't discoloured noticably. I'm not convinced they reduce heat a great deal - so much is generated for such a long time that it eventually builds up. In a previous life we used a lot of ceramic fibre (weld cloth) as insulation. Our demonstration was to put a thin sheet of this fabric on our hands and then point a Ronson-type brazing torch. In another previous life a sister division used to make fireproof rubber hoses for sprinkler systems and sheets that they used behind deck launched rockets in case the didn't launch - that was an amazing product but probably a bit pricy for mortals like us. The point is there are some interesting alternatives to the standard wraps and materials sold for mototrsport. Alternator still not charging.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 Happy to say all now sorted. The low voltage was was a bad connection on the alternator - sorted by cleaning the connections. The click still persisted, but relay now fitted and many hots starts later fires up on the button (literally) 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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