bobt Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi peebs, Just had a rather alarming find whilst removing the interior cockpit side panels. I drilled out the most rearward bottom rivet and a small flow (possibly 4-5 tablespoons full) of black gunky water ran out! To help describe the location better, there is a short thick chassis rail that runs diagonally from the rear lower corner of the door sill (where your elbow might rest) to the lower chassis rail just above where the A frame mount is. This tube has 5-6 rivets in the cockpit to secure the internal panels and maybe 4 rivets on the outer side skin within the rear wheel arch. I've ckecked over everything but cannot see how the water could have got in. Its difficult to tell but I can only imagine its entered via one of the holes in the centre of the rivets within the wheel arch. When fitting rivets you're sometimes left with a hole right through when the shaft pulls out. I would have thought it be common practice to seal the heads of rivets that are exposed like this? I then drilled the same rivet out on the passenger side and got the same result 🙆🏻 Anybody else had this or can confirm how the water enters the rail? Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Had it on a Westie a long time ago - I reckon, same as you, it entered via a rivet, or a loose rivet. I drilled a hole right at the bottom of the tube in question (only a small one) to let the water out. Waited a little while, then used an aerosol can of waxoyl (with the tube extension) to attempt to coat the inside of the tube with something to slow the rusting. Seemed to work, and was fine 7 yrs later. With that in mind, when I built the Caterham, every rivet I could find got a shot of sealant in, on and around it. Of course, as soon as you use the car and the chassis flexes, loosening the rivets in their holes, you will get some gaps. When I fitted a lowered floor, I used small dia nylon tube and a pressurised pot to inject dinitrol in and along the tubes - drilled other rivets out to get all along some tubes. No idea if it will do anything, but made me feel a little better as the car lives outside. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.russell Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 exactly the same Rob, took off the panels for the first time recently, 1992 chassis, to fit bosses for SLR cage. i had the same water ingress, i believe there often is a very small build up of water that sits in the elbow area against the piping where the side skin is welded to the rear wheel arch part of the side skin. in time i think this seeps down and into the rivets. The square tube in question though is open at the top and can i believe get water from the round tubes that form the door opening and the rear wheel arch frame. I also found this was the only are of surface rust beneath the skin, i think this is due to the powder coat burning off when the skin is joined. i have drilled a hole in the very bottom of the tubes above the braze to allow any water to flow out and have liberally treated the tubes to a coating of waxoil as best i can inside with a waxoil spayer. The tube is just out of shot here the pic is from the passenger side looking at the inner drivers side skin and chassis.ps i am replacing with closed end rivets to hopefully stop any further ingress of water. Kevin R black(but sometimes orange)-ali HPC here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 17, 2011 Leadership Team Share Posted January 17, 2011 Water goes through the rivets, even with the nail still in place. Seriously I only found this out after I'd gone to a lot of trouble replacing a load of interior panels and powder coating, then injecting Waxoyl into the chassis tubes - in hot weather the Waxoyl drips through every rivet!!!! The only way round this is to use closed rivets. Caterham/Arch use cheaper open rivets. Stu. Joint Area Representative MAD Sevens (Merseyside And District) www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.russell Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 also had the warm waxoil situation 😬 😳 at least you know its getting around the tubes Kevin R black(but sometimes orange)-ali HPC here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks guys - blimey, didn't know that tube is open at the top. The sideskin are rolled round the top of the sill so its impossible to see. Whats the deciding factor as to whether to use Waxoyl or dinitrol in side the tubes? Hmm well I think I'll be buying up a load of closed rivets then as the floors are out (making way for lowered) and the interor panels are on the way out so I could health check the chassis rails, seal off the grot trap and prep for its respray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 17, 2011 Leadership Team Share Posted January 17, 2011 I assume we're discussing this tube? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thats the puppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Has someone had the sh*ts in your car? 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 17, 2011 Leadership Team Share Posted January 17, 2011 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 "The square tube in question though is open at the top " There is no excuse for that. Waxoyl is your friend, thoough inject it in the tubes instead of smearing it on the panels as per that photo... Full Terms and Conditions of this post can be read here. Edited by - EFA on 17 Jan 2011 22:24:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.russell Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 sorry bob when i said open at the top, i meant open into the other tubes that it meets and is brazed to. it would not be a common practice to cap such a tube and then braze it to others. Kevin R black(but sometimes orange)-ali HPC here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted January 18, 2011 Area Representative Share Posted January 18, 2011 Waxoyl is your friend, thoough inject it in the tubes instead of smearing it on the panels as per that photo... Do both . I know Stuart did. Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) LADS Website Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 18, 2011 Leadership Team Share Posted January 18, 2011 Arnie, I'm sure you appreciate it's a little hard to show the Waxoyl that's inside a tube Suffice to say, I injected enough in for it to pi$$ out through the rivets - it's going to be interesting if it ever needs a substantial repair at Arch Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 So if I'm going to buy a few hundred closed rivets to refit the floors and interior panels etc what size will I need? Is it 4mm x (approx)10mm? Been looking at these here: AD53AH (9.5mm long, max material thickness 4.8mm) and here AD54AH (11.5mm long, max material thickness 6.4mm) Not sure which ones to go for since the tunnel chassis rails are very small and I don't want to buy a rivet that is too long but obviously needs to be long enough to pin a lowered floor. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Another site for every type of rivet you could need here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted January 18, 2011 Area Representative Share Posted January 18, 2011 4mm diameter rivets are normally what you need. Note that you need steel rivets for the floors and they are normally supplied with the floors. For the remainder of the rivets I mostly use 10mm long rivets for attaching single panels to tubes, and 12mm long rivets where there are panels and rubber trim or more than one panel. I also purchased some 14mm long rivets, but as I recall I didn't need to use any. My advice is to just use normal rivets and plenty of waxoyl. I'm not sure that closed rivets really provide any benefit and in any event, there's water/damp in the tubes already. Closed rivets just seal it in. Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) LADS Website Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now