How to turn off the car with the new dash

[spiderlane]

My R400 (still in build) has the R500 style dash with keyless ignition.

 

I understand that to start the car, I place the immobiliser fob in the cubby in front of the gear knob, press the start button once to turn the ignition, and once again to fire the starter.

 

This is probably a stupid question and will no doubt be obvious when the car is finished, but how do you stop the engine and after that how do you turn off the ignition? Also, with this kind of system, is there an "accessories" position?

 

The CC owners manual doesn't have any info. All help gratefully received.

[mic]

Press the button to switch ignition on, press again and hold to start, press again to stop.

[spiderlane]

Thanks Mic :)

[Rattie]

LOL, I had to ask the same question while I was building. 😬

 

Martyn

^{_{R300GRR waiting for V5}}

[nigelpugh]

Mic answered it for you.

 

However there are some quirks that I have noticed with mine, regarding the indicator buttons mounted on the steering wheel.

 

Cant be sure of the exact sequence or reason, but I did notice that I could not turn the ignition off ( by pressing the start button again, as Mic pointed out!), but recently with the car parked up on tick-over, with the left hand indicator on, I could not turn off the ignition( ie stop the engine) by pressing the start button again.

 

However when you then cancel the indicator on the wheel, the engine switches off!

 

Also makes a very funny sound from the dash if you accidentally do the above when you remove the steering wheel!!

 

Nigel

 

Nigel Pugh - Area Representative - WAGS - Worcestershire Area Group Sevens

 

R500 CP - New 2008 Duratec R500

[spiderlane]

@Martyn - So I presume there is no concept of an "accessories" position like in an old fashioned key driven system?

It only has 3 states?

 

e.g.

 

1. Off

2. Ignition Live

3. Cranking

 

@Nigel - No indicators on the wheel for the R400. On the dash I presume. They seem to have little lights in them?

 

Edited by - spiderlane on 14 Apr 2010 13:02:00

[Rattie]

The start button does go through "moods". If you tap it to turn on, it'll often just go "ker click" and not turn the ignition on. You want to press it calmly so that it doesn't just bounce.

 

Then you wait for the immobiliser light to stop flashing fast, then press and hold the start button until the engine starts. You can then put the fob back inyour pocket it you like, but we generally leave it on a CC carabiner key ring with the petrol key in the little cubby with the antenna round it.

 

To turn off you can just stab it.

 

It's actually a nice little system once you start using it.

 

Added: yes, three states

 

Martyn

^{_{R300GRR waiting for V5}}

 

Edited by - Rattie on 14 Apr 2010 13:06:50

[MartinP]

I find it quite amateurish that CC don't include anything in the handbook about this system when it can be a bit quirkish. They use one button with a START legend on it (when it hasn't fallen off because it got wet in an open car and the glue melted ) for both start and stop functions.

 

When it is used in the 'stop' mode, if you hold it pressed for not much longer than a second you will run the starter motor into engagement on an already running engine 😳. Hence I adopted the 'stab it' approach as a safe method to use no matter what. It is then that you realise that it needs to be held for longer to turn the ignition on in the first place otherwise it refuses to reset the immobiliser. Hence when it is not intuitive why doesn't it come with a handful of words of description and more particularly with an interlock preventing the starter motor from operating when the engine is already running. Amateurish installation IMO which should not be the case on a car that costs this much.

 

Then there's the light switches! I've reverted to counting how many times I've pressed the switch to work out whether the sidelights are on, headlights are on dipped or on main beam and reinforcing that with looking for the reflection off the cats eyes. Always assuming of course you know which switch to press because it's legend has also fallen off .

 

Then there's the Stack dash with only half the information you need included in the handbook - get over that by going to the website and downloading it for yourself.

 

Then there's the shiftlights that are set (understandably) conservatively on a new car but absolutely nothing in the handbook to indicate how to reset them. That'll be another trawl around the web to download the necessary information.

 

Lucky job CC sell their product to enthusiasts!

[spiderlane]

I can live with the useless/missing manuals and am happy to go to the web to find out the info etc, however the fact that you can crank a running engine by mistake if you happen to hold down the button slightly too long seems like a big design/implementation flaw.

 

I don't suppose it's possible to reprogram the dash brain to prevent that, since I assume that it doesn't know whether the engine is actually running or not (just that the ignition is on) unless there is some feedback from the ECU?

[andrew_r]

Nigel,

 

I beleive that Caterham can reflash the dash controller module (PCB mounted behind the dash) to stop the indicators affecting your ability to turn the engine off, there was also a problem with the headlamps being on and in a certain state affecting the switching off on the engine.

 

It would be interesting to know if they could reflash it to stop a long push when the engine is running, re-engaging the starter, maybe a timer controlled function from initial ignition switch on or crank to stop recranking without an ignition cycle?

 

Regards

Andrew

[andrew_r]

Spiderline,

 

when the kit arrives the indicator switches are not fitted to the steering wheel as it would not pass the IVA.

 

The two indicator switches and small loom are temporarily installed in place of two stack buttons and then installed in the steering wheel post IVA.

 

What switches have you got for indicators?

[spiderlane]

@andrew_r - Good question! I assume it's the 2 buttons directly either side of the stack in this picture? They seem to have lights in them. There is no wiring to the steering wheel from the boss that I can see.

 

Mark

 

Edited by - spiderlane on 15 Apr 2010 14:27:19

[MartinP]

It's noticeable that in the start sequence after establishing ignition there is a delay between pressing the start button and the starter motor turning. Under normal circumstances why wouldn't this be instantaneous? It's my best guess that this has been incorporated deliberately to delay the starter motor from spinning up when the same button is used as a stop button. I question therefore whether a simple fix is available as I prefer to give CC credit that they would have included a suitable interlock at the design stage instead of this rather poor design. Incorporation of a signal indicative of the engine running into the start logic should not be that difficult if it is included at the outset. It may not actually be that difficult retrosepctively if there is a will to do so!

[andrew_r]

Spiderlane,

 

it looks like your indicators are indeed on the dash as the stack only requires 4 buttons and you have six in total.

 

I think mine has five buttons, 4 for the stack and 1 for launch control and then the 2 due for fitting on the steering wheel.

 

Caterham want to charge me 4 hours labour (£300) to install the steering wheel mounted button, I guess I could just drill another hole.

 

Regards

Andrew

[Rattie]

It may be worthwhile pointing Sean C to this thread to provide feedback on the foibles of the new dash, particularly the start button behaviour. We know that the dash is flashable as Andrew says, they got mine reflashed to increase the fog light switch brightness to pass IVA. I assume the rev counter is driven by the dash and if I'm right that would mean the dash could tell if it's running and interlock the starter in that case.

 

Of course its not just the the customers who are enthusiasts, and the factory guys are probably now so used to operating the dash that they don't see the problems any more, so if we see opportunities for improvement, we should let them know. I'll fir off an email to Sean.

 

Martyn

^_R300GRR

[MartinP]

Believe me, I've let them know!