SVA registration question.

[simonpa]

OK - I understand that the cutoff for SVA-registered cars is the 31st December of this year.

 

Now, is it possible to register a car that has passed SVA before the end of this year, without having any further inspections? And then have the MOT at a later date, before the car goes back on the road?

 

I ask as a friend has a car that he bought with an SVA certificate, but it needs rebuilding before it will be roadworthy. He won't be able to finish this before the end of the month...

 

Can he use the SVA certificate to register the car in the meantime?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Cheers - Simon

 

 

[Johnty Lyons]

Don't think so Simon happens occassionally with ex acadmey cars

I have someone in just this position at moment trying to get an ex academy car registered before end of month

 

---

jj

MTM , N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻

Membership No.3927.

240BHP 1900cc K Series 40th Anniversary

 

[simonpa]

Agh - I'll let him know.. Thanks Johnty!

 

Do you know what the position is with getting it registered after the end of the month?

Will the car still be able to be registered on an age-related (2004) plate?

 

Cheers - Simon

 

[John Vine]

Simon,

You're right to say that SVA certificates for passenger vehicles will expire on 31 Dec 2009 (details here).

If my experience is anything to go by, the DVLA office that does the registration will almost certainly want to inspect the car to check that the chassis and engine numbers match the SVA certificate. You're supposed to trailer it to the inspection -- in which case, provided the car is in one piece, looks like a car, and the engine and chassis numbers match the SVA cert, maybe you'll be OK? That's assuming, of course, you can find a DVLA office that will book you in before the year-end. As far as I'm aware, once a car has passed the SVA test, you can register it whenever you like (subject to the 31/12/09 deadline).

 

Re obtaining an age-related plate (as opposed to a Q-plate), I wouldn't have thought that that would be a problem, provided it's clear to the DVLA inspector that the car has sufficient new parts.

 

JV

[John Vine]

Simon,

On behalf of your friend, I've been giving this a bit more thought:

And then have the MOT at a later date

It seems to me that the MOT becomes relevant only after the third anniversary of the registration date.

Will the car still be able to be registered on an age-related (2004) plate?

I imagine theDVLA Local Office will give you either a 59 mark or (if you have one available) a personal mark. This assumes you can prove that you have as many new parts as necessary (for example, via Caterham's Certificate of Newness) for the car to be considered new. If you can't do this, you'll get a Q-plate. It seems most unlikely to me that you'd get an 04/54 mark.

Do you know what the position is with getting it registered after the end of the month?

Well, the SVA certificate (that is, the Minister's Approval Certificate or MAC) becomes invalid after 31 December 2009. The VOSA Newsletter I mentioned earlier says:If a certificate issued to a Passenger car is not used by this date, it will be necessary to apply for and obtain an IVA certificate to register/first licence the vehicle.It's not clear whether the car would need to undergo a new (IVA) test, or whether the old SVA MAC could simply be swapped for an IVA one. It's also not clear whether the SVA MAC is the same document as the IVA MAC.

 

This is my reading of such publications as I can find. But beware, I may well have got it all hopelessly wrong!

 

JV

 

[simonpa]

Hi John - thanks for that.

 

He wouldn't be able to get a current/59 plate as it was new in 2004, so all the parts would be old now :(

 

Unfortunately, there is no way he'd be able to get the car ready for inspection by the end of the month (even if the DVLA could fit him in), as he's bought it in bits and is still waiting on another party to give him quite a lot of it...

 

He's off to see them today, so will hopefully get an answer either way.

 

Another quick question: If he was assigned a 'Q' plate to the car, can you then put a personal/cherished plate on it?

 

TIA (again) - Simon

 

[Irrelevant]

Another quick question: If he was assigned a 'Q' plate to the car, can you then put a personal/cherished plate on it?

No

[PaulCo]

An update on my progress with the registration of the ex-Bat car -

 

DVLA stated that I must get the MOT done before applying for registration, but as I have the Vehicle Inspectorate certificate and certificate of newness, they would not need to see the car.

 

MOT passed this morning, then off to DVLA - they took my money and documents off me and then told me to make an appointment to have the car inspected (even if i'd taken the car, I would still have had to return at the appointed time). They were OK with the documentation, but took the view that as the car was more than a year old, it could have changed significantly since original inspection.

 

So back again next Wednesday. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Paul

[John Vine]

He wouldn't be able to get a current/59 plate as it was new in 2004, so all the parts would be old now

That's an interesting point. As far as I can tell, "not new" in this context means "had a previous existence in another vehicle" (such as a donor car). Given that all the parts were new at the time of the original sale (and assuming you can prove this), and that the same parts remain on the car, I don't see why, in principle, the DVLA could not issue a current mark (rather than 04/54 or Q). However, following Paul's point, I suppose the DVLA might think that, as five years have now passed since SVA, the car could have changed significantly. I can't see how they could ask for an MOT test as the car has never been registered (so how would the tester know what sections of the MOT manual to apply?), but I suppose they could require a new SVA/IVA test?

 

I found these explanations on the direct.gov.uk website:

A ‘Q’ registration number means:

 

* the age or identity of the vehicle is not known

* the vehicle may have been rebuilt from old or new parts

* the vehicle may have been imported without proof of the vehicles age

 

The registration certificate should say why the vehicle has been registered with a ‘Q’ registration number.

---

Kit Cars -- where all the parts of a vehicle are supplied new by the manufacturer. Subject to the provision of satisfactory receipts and a certificate of newness these vehicles will be registered under a current registration mark.

 

Kit cars which have been built using not more than one reconditioned component will also be registered under a current mark. This is subject to the provision of satisfactory evidence that the component has been reconditioned to an "as new" standard. An IVA, ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required.

---

 

This last paragraph suggests that, provided the car is "as new" and has an SVA/IVA certificate, the DVLA will issue a current mark. Nowhere does it stipulate a time limit between SVA and registration, and that's what I've been unable to establish so far from the published information.

 

I'd be very interested to hear what the DVLA take is on this!

 

(Oh, and I agree with Epimetheus re replacing a Q mark.)

 

JV

 

[John Vine]

Paul,

Your comment re needing an MOT intrigues me. Did the DVLA say why they wanted an MOT cert (given that MOTs normally apply three years after first registration)? And how did the MOT tester know which test criteria to apply?

 

Good luck next Weds! I'd be interested to know whether they give you a current reg mark.

 

JV

[John Vine]

Simon,

Re the mark your friend might get, I can add a bit more.....

 

I asked the DVLA chap who registered my car, and he thinks it likely that the car would get a 2004 mark rather than a current one, on the basis that the SVA has already dated the vehicle.

 

JV

[simonpa]

Thanks John - I'll let him know.

I'll let you know hoew he gets on when I get an update.

 

Cheers - Simon

 

[Nick Chan]

A friend with a car in the same circumstances has just passed the MOT and handed the paperwork in with his SVA and now has to wait for an inspection date in the New Year when there is availability. As he has submitted his documents in plenty of time to get an inspection, notwithstanding the Xmas closure, his SVA certificate is valid and he should get a registration next year.

 

Nick

 

-----

Back in a BEC! - but done alright in Class 1...

[John Vine]

Nick, I'd be interested to know if he gets a 59 mark. Do you happen to know when his SVA was done?

 

JV

[PaulCo]

My original enquiry to DVLA elicited a helpful and reasoned response. Given the year of manufacture, the car would be eligible for an MOT at the time of registration, and therefore the certificate would be required (along with the insurance certificate) to enable a tax disc to be issued.

 

The garage doing the MOT simply entered the VIN number and the year of manufacture onto the system at the start of the test, and then went from there - I assumed that the year was the relevant bit.

 

Paul

 

p.s. DVLA told me that the car would have a registration appropriate to the year of manufacture.

 

Edited by - PaulCo on 20 Dec 2009 22:05:07

[John Vine]

Thanks, Paul, that's clarified things a lot. So, an MOT is required three years after manufacture rather than registration, and the DVLA do not issue a mark that implies a date of manufacture later than the actual date. I guess that figures. And, if date of manufacture = SVA date (as my DVLA contact suggested), it figures even more.

 

JV

[PaulCo]

Not a good result from DVLA.

 

Took the car for the inspecton this morning (why is there no parking space for trailers at DVLA?)

 

Firstly, had to try and convince the inspector that it was factory built from new parts, despite the certificate of newness, and asked to prove that the parts were all original - her view was that if I couldn't, they could assume that the parts were from a stolen car. She found it difficult to understand why the car had not been registered for several years, despite the evidence of the original invoice, and the invoice from my purchase.

 

As a queue of inspections, was then starting to form and block the car park(remember that there is no parking space above car-size), I was put in an interview room and seen by the office manager.

 

Her response was very simple - the original SVA certificate was now over 2 years old, the vehicle had been used in the mean time, so therefore I must now put the car through an IVA inspection.

 

Great.

 

Paul

[John Vine]

Paul, what a nightmare! Some thoughts:

 

I imagine a Certificate of Newness doesn't necessarily prove factory-build, as kits are also issued with this doc, but I would have thought that the Cert (backed up by the original invoice) would have been sufficient to establish "all new" status.

 

My DVLA contact tells me that, in the past, they've accepted SVA certs up to two years old. He didn't say what their take was on older certs. AFAIK, SVA and IVA certs don't have inherent expiry dates, but I imagine the DVLA might be a bit iffy regarding old certs, on the grounds that the car might have changed significantly in the interim.

 

Good luck with the IVA -- more expense.

 

JV

[Johnty Lyons]

Paul from my sources[inside] You should have asked her to show you the statute of limitations on the SVA cert and since you had certificate of newness and invoice What Statute she was using to refuse you A lot of the so called rules dreamt up by DVLA officials have no backing in LAW and when you push them they have to back down.

We've been down this route before with DVLA officials overstepping the mark. ☹️

Unfortunately my contact is now on Holiday or I could have got you a set of very awkward questions to ask.

[John Vine]

Paul,

If you do end up needing an IVA, you'll probably need to get Caterham themselves to submit the car for testing. This has to do with the regs for Very Low Volume vehicles (Class L), I believe, under which Caterham submit fully-built cars for testing.

 

Simon,

Re IVA, if your friend's car was factory-built, I think the above will probably apply to him as well. However, if the car was kit-built, he may have problems completing the IVA Amateur-Build Declaration (here), depending on who did the building. Section 1.4 seems to comes closest, especially if the car was bought partially built!

 

JV

[PaulCo]

Much better news -

After a battle with the local DVLA office manager on the phone this morning, I persuaded her to ask Swansea. She spoke to Head of Policy, who told her that my SVA was acceptable - I now have a registered car, on an age related plate.

 

Caterham, both midlands and south, were very helpful when I contacted them regarding the IVA and registration, and took the view that it would be highly impractical to try to get my car through the inspection. Among other components, even the shock absorbers would have to be changed (edges of spring pans too sharp).

 

Paul

 

 

[John Vine]

Well done, Paul! Tight squeeze with just one day to go.

 

JV

[CaterBram]

Congratulations in squeezing in order the wire, now bet you can't wait for good weather 😬

 

Q469 WET 1990 Caterham 1690 Crossflow Long Cockpit No. 618 in Ali except for the red bits.CaterBram on Facebook

[PaulCo]

The man at DVLA said: "So, I suppose you'll be taking your wife out for a meal in it tonight."

 

They still don't understand!

 

Paul

[Johnty Lyons]

Excellent News

DVLA have a lot of Policies which have NO standing in Law

if you don't query them they fob you off

I have mentioned this before

You need to seek out the relevant Statute and then stick to your guns

They have no option when faced by a member of the public who has done their homework BUT to back down.

Remember they are a GOV agency who are there to serve us

If you are within the law they cant touch you

BUT try a fly one and they WILL put you off the road

 

 

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jj

MTM , N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻

Membership No.3927.

240BHP 1900cc K Series 40th Anniversary