alan7 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 How long should a battery last? Powevamp Racing 25 18 A/H 680 Cranking amps 4 years old Optimate trickle charged between blats If I don't change it or leave it for 2 days its a sod to start, if I don't catch it in the first 3 attempts It's impossible 1.8 K VHPD Think it's time for a new battery? How do you get the dead flies off your teeth....... 😬 R5AAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 It may be worth checking for any current usage while the engine is off (eg immobilisers) to check if these draw enough current to drain the battery over the 2 days. I notice that your battery is barely more than 50% of the size specified by CC - 18AH vs 30AH - so any current drain will be more noticeable. I do not know the consequences on a modern engine, but a battery master switch could be useful in reducing this current to nil. Cheers, Graham ------ Low tech luddite - xflow and proud! Edited by - Graham Sewell on 17 Aug 2009 15:28:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 as long as nothing circumnavigates it (such as the clock on my BDR!) Battery sounds like it has done quite well assuming 4 winters. as Graham says/alludes, any deep discharge will knacker it quicker especially those types which must be the complete opposite of a "leisure battery" capable of deep discharge and recovery.. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S47zz Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Alan 4 Years - I'd say is par for the course, especially with consistant draining of battery whilst not being used/parkewd up for long periods. One way to increase battery life is to disconnect it whenever the car is in the garage [ bit of a pain I know ] by removing one of the terminals. So dig deep and buy a new 'un then look after it by removing the terminal. Mal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 disconnect battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Alan - the dry-cell batteries such as yours have a progressively-shorter life the deeper you discharge them. Powervamp sent me some technical info. a year or two back that suggested, for instance, that if you ran them on a race-car with a total-loss system (i.e. not being charged from an alternator during the race), they could be killed in as little as 40 outings. If you are charging them on the car at the correct voltage (a little-higher than a wet battery, but I'd have to look up the recommended setting) and not letting them discharge when not running (i.e. no parasytic immobiliser loads etc.), they should last for years. 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Ecosse™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 did you have the same problem with the previous engine Al ? it sounds like you have a drain on the battery when the ignition is off rather than a dead / dying battery. there should be no issue in leaving a car battery for 3 days. on the other hand if you leave it for 3 months then that is a diffferent matter. Try disconnecting the battery and leaving for 3 days to see if it maintains its charge. Then the problem of finding the drain problem.... here is my Duratec R .... C7 TOP Taffia joint AO with Al Edited by - Dave Jackson on 19 Aug 2009 14:17:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 as for "catching it" in the first 3 attempts - that sounds like a mapping problem. You should be able to press the starter button and the car start on its own / tick over and warm up . sounds like you have 2 problems Al here is my Duratec R .... C7 TOP Taffia joint AO with Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Concur with Dave! Feet off, ign on, push button, car starts 😬 otherwise it isn't mapped right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted August 19, 2009 Area Representative Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dave/Jonty In which case, the mapping by Dave Walker on my VHPD isn't right. Alan, my advice is to fit a battery master switch. I have a similar problem with the 21, leave the car for two days and it wouldn't start. With a battery isolator it is not a problem. At some point I will get the electrics checked out (I know just the 21 owner to do this) but if the isolator works, a "better" solution can wait. This happened with the old engine/MEMS and the new engine/Emerald set-up. Democratic dissent is not disloyalty, it is a positive civic duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 "catching it" - when I had that it turned out to be two broken valve springs and carp plugs. The mapping was fine presumably, but did not stand much of a chance. There have been times I would swear there was nothing draining a little bit of current and I'd end up with a dud battery (this is various cars, all neglected for some time), even with a battery cut out (wasn't me wired the clock direct!) and immobilisers or whatever. These days I just disconnect the battery regardless, been caught too many times. Too many new batteries. What originally lead me to this conclusion was when in a shop I asked how long is the shelf life of the (acid filled) batteries on their shelves. I was told "oh about two years" - so that's plenty long enough for one Winter as long as truly there is nothing (however small) taking a slurp of current. It does sound like time for a new battery: does it start when jumped to another battery? If so, there's an answer. have you actually disconnected it while charging? I'm just repeating everyone else really. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Probably a footnote now but I tend to find my alternators last about 4 years. Might be worth checking out as that'll kill your battery faster than most things. You'll be surprised to find how far you can run on just a battery alone and no charging at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Just for information I just measured the current being drawn from the battery while parked (standard Rover MEMs and immobiliser) and it's 14mA which equates to about 2.4A.hr per week. It accounts for why a car stood for only a few weeks might be reluctant to start. And of course it means that the car only needs to be left a short while without a maintenance charger for the battery to start to become sulphated. By comparison, the self-discharge of an AGM battery is about 2% per month which is equal to about 1mA for a 40A.hr battery so just a couple of days draw of the immobiliser is equal to a month's self discharge for an isolated battery. Edited by - Colin Mill on 20 Aug 2009 08:46:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Cardwell Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Use the battery isolator from Demon Tweeks here With the battery disconnected during the winter will just about start the car without jump leads in early Spring. Very easy to fit and useful where no electricity supply in the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan7 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 Thanks for all the advice/comments Update I've been playing around with a earthing problem I've had for a few weeks, new earth connection fitted from battery to chassis seem to have cured that one. Could there be a connection? (No pun intended!! ) Didn't have the problem with the previous 1.6 SS engine & standard Rover MEMS & the problem doesn't occur regularly. I had the car stood out in the cold/wet for a couple of days at the end of July & it started OK. Car has started 1st time every time over the last few days - since a new earth connection. I have a battery master switch fitted so will switched battery off for 3 days without charging it & see what happens How do you get the dead flies off your teeth....... 😬 R5AAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 otherwise it isn't mapped right. That is patently ignoring the (quite likely) possibility in this case that the engine is not turning over quickly enough for the Emerald/ECU to recognise rotation. ...but I'm wondering if the progressively-worse starting time on my k (before it broke while idling recently) was due to the belt having skipped rather than / as well as the battery/starter getting tired. It took around five secs of churning to catch on the fateful morning of its demise ☹️ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Ecosse™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 ...but I'm wondering if the progressively-worse starting time on my k (before it broke while idling recently) was due to the belt having skipped rather than / as well as the battery/starter getting tired. It took around five secs of churning to catch on the fateful morning of its demiseThat's cheered him up, he only thought he had a duff battery! Worth checking the cambelt though. Gel batteries like to have at least 14.4v to charge properly Ian - Slightly Vider SVelte SuperVeloce model 😬 - Joint AR for North Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I've been playing around with a earthing problem I've had for a few weeks, new earth connection fitted from battery to chassis seem to have cured that one. Could there be a connection? (No pun intended!! ) For sure, bad earth means inability to carry enough current = slow starter response = no start Needs to be added to the "click of death" checklist here even though it's not heat related as an item to rule out. Anthony Edited by - anthonym on 20 Aug 2009 19:22:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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