jamesc Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Help please! I managed to crack the sump on my R300 yesterday (bottomed out during some spirited driving). Could someone confirm whether this is a job that can be undertaken by a mechanical numpty? The car is dry sumped (the Caterham swirl tower type that uses the bell housing). I've just spoken to James Gibson at Dartford who quoted £225.00 for a new one, plus I'll need the oil filter that goes in one of the hoses and the main oil filter. Also might I have done any other damage (engine mountings and the like)? I don't think I did any damage to the internals as I didn't go far and the oil took a while to empty completely. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yes. It is a case of undoing the bolts, and removing the sump. Fitting the new one is the reverse. Don't forget the horizontal bolts near the bell housing. Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 You'll have to take it off first but you might be able to get it welded up by a local engineering firm. It depends on how badly damaged it is and how easily the cracks can be identified and sealed. If you've damaged one of the scavenge outlets you would do well to get a new one though as it might never seal properly. Provided you stopped the engine before the oil pressure disappeared it should be fine. However, if you have any doubts about this (and only you know!), you would be well advised to get the bearings checked. From your description it sounds as though you did shut it off in good time, in which case no need to worry. If you hit a rock that punched a hole in the sump then its less likely that the mounts will have been stretched. If it was a hump or manhole cover or you felt the car lifted off the ground I would try and get the car up in the air or over a pit so you can have a good look around to check for other damage. This will make removing/replacing the sump a great deal easier as well. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Thanks for the replies. I'll take the sump off at the weekend so it can be properly inspected. Does anyone know an alloy welder in the Essex area? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Look on www.Yell.co.uk for precision engineers and phone and ask them if they do TIG welding, which will be best for this kind of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 james, If you have a jack place it under the damaged sump and get someone to raise the jack slowly whilst you watch the engine mountings. If the rubber block at the bottom of the arms seperate as the engine is lifted then it needs replacing. They do break fairly easily as they are designed to have the engine weight on them not being pushed upwards with the weight hanging off the bottom. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven toThe French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Thanks Chaps. No doubt I'll be on here at the weekend asking why it won't come off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 If it is the same bolt arrangement as the wet sump ... it will be the two long horizontal bolts at the rear that go into the bellhousing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JampJ Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Just had a cracked xflow alloy sump fixed. Couldn't see the crack from the outside, but could on the inside. (THERE ARE CRACK DETECTION FLUIDS AVAILABLE) Just ran the tig torch up and down the crack, basically fused the metal back together, no wire required. Cheers John JFDI (Just F*****g Do It) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADMALC Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Just as a note to the above, the gold scavenge pump will suck oil quicker than it can fall out of a largish hole in the sump pan. I have destroyed 2 pans and driven over 50 miles without loosing a drop. As soon as I swithed the engine off it all fell out on the drive. Do check both the rubber part of the mounts as well as the metal engine mount welds. I have had both fail after grounding. Good luck with the repair. S7MAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks for the posts and I will indeed check the engine mounts very carefully. MADMALC - were you able to repair the sump both times, or have you had to replace? Also is there a gasket on the sump pan or should I use some proprietary material? if so any recommendations? Lastly, is it best to replace the filter in the hose as well as the main oil filter? Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Traditionally, the dry sump is sealed with a plastic gasket goo. However, I fit the wet sump gasket, but cut the centre out of it, to retain just the outer edge. It thus becomes possible to fit and remove the sump freely, without the worry of cleaning off the old gasket goo and they apply more on to yourself and the sump! JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Nut Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 James, I have sump issues at the mo aswell and have been recommended to try either:- Roy at ACS on 01376 513419 or Mark at DS Engineering here Both are in Witham, Essex only 2mins off the A12. Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADMALC Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Both were destroyed so new both times. I have used sealant but the last time it did not seal first time so had to drop the sump and do it again. I will try the cut down gasket next time. I have now increased my ride height to try and save it happening again. S7MAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 Excellent - I have a sump gasket from my old Supersport. Thanks for the info on the Witham welders - very handy as I live in Witham! The sump is now off and cracks are clearly visible at the front edge. Only difficulty I have had is removing the stainless steel baffle from inside. Three of the hex bolts are too tight and I have now rounded them off on the inside. Presumably the baffle will have to come out before it is welded, so I'll hope that the engineers can sort it out for me. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Sump now being repaired (ACS - thanks 7nut). Further proof of my lack of credentials - are there torque settings or anything for tightening the bolts when putting the sump back on and should I be loctiting or anything? JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Nut Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Is Roy doing your sump 🤔 Let me know how you get please. Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 Yes Roy repaired the sump. Bead blasted and welded - not too bad a job and only £30.00. The problem is that I can't be sure that everything is OK because I was thwarted in the end by a wrong O-ring (supplied by Caterham). This was only discovered after putting everything back together, pouring in a couple of litres of expensive Caterham Motorsport oil and watching it leaking fairly steadily from the rear hose union. It proved frustratingly impossible to find a 25mm o-ring on Saturday afternoon. Does anyone know the exact size/spec of this small but crucial part? So a beautiful weekend went by without a blat, made up for by my equally (though differently) engaging motorbike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 22, 2009 Author Share Posted June 22, 2009 After an abortive attempt last week everything is back in working order (thanks Redline for being able to supply the correct o-ring). So I can report that Roy at ACS's repair of the sump worked, as did the altered wet sump gasket as suggested by John Howe. Thanks again to all who troubled to answer my queries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Nut Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Glad your sorted and back on the road again. Maybe you'll like to join Bladey (also from Witham) and I on a blat or two. Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesc Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Would be glad to join you both for a blat. Let me know when you next might be off on one. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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