Rob Patching Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hi Everyone, Looking for some advice regarding upgrading to some better harnesses. I currently have the 4 point "road" harnesses, which I have been very dissapointed with. They're awkward to get in and out of due to 2 of the straps being permenantly connected, and I feel like I cant properly tighten the shoulder straps because that just causes the waist straps to end up rising up. So, I'm looking to get some 6 point harnesses from Caterham. I'm unsure whether to opt for Seat Belt - 4 Point - Quick Release and Crutch Strap - Plug into 4 Point - Black or Seat Belt - 6 Point Race Harness - S3 which is considerably more expensive. When I asked Caterham what the differences were, they replied: "The 6 point crutch straps attach to the shoulder straps which the clip into the buckle whereas the 4 point buckle has a single point additional fixing within the buckle. The tensioning pull straps also pull the opposite ways" I dont have a clue which one of these would be easier to use, so if anyone has experience of using either/both I'd appreciate it! Also, any idea what my 4 point road harnesses might be worth? they're less than a year old and in mint condition. Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3MCJez Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I'm new to this game, but I've got the 6-point setup. Personally, I only use the waist and shoulder straps when I'm on the road and then use the crotch straps on the track. My worry with the plugin bit is that it doesn't pull to the sides at all, and thus would put all the pressure in a rather tender area in the event of a crash. Do you need 6-point, or just 4? The crotch straps are a bit of a faff to put on (and even more so to get adjusted properly), if you want to have them properly tight (and if you don't why bother?). Jez Build Photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I've just started using the six-point one, as my previous setup expired. Didn't even realise the "4-point plus crutch strap" option existed. Trying to use the new harness together with wrist restraints is a bit of PITA. I'd definitely say the single point plugin version would be easier to use, but much more chance of an ice-cream cone garnish [1] in the case of a crash. For road use the 4-point plus crutch strap is probably better, but for track / race use I'd probably still choose the 6-point. [1] crushed nuts, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryT Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I've used both types (6 point and plug in). The 6 point is definitely the better track set up but more fiddly. Have currently gone for a road track compromise using a plug-in but a Willans harnness with a 'T' type plug-un (DT catalogue page 175) which gives a bit more clerance in important areas. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Patching Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 thanks for the replys guys... does anyone have a picture of the 6 point harness in use? from the picture on the caterham website and the explaination I cant really picture how it actually goes together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Rob, I'm not sure they make a set of seat belts that will stretch from Rotherham to Durham. That's some 🙆🏻 Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven toThe French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The side belts of the six point have D-ring loops. The crotch straps go through the D-rings from the outside, then up to the top of the buckle, leaving a loop to push the top straps through. This means that the crotch straps are being pulled apart over the top of your legs. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 In my opinion the 6-point plug in is the way to go, unless you have to have the race version to meet competition regs. For road / track-day use the plug-in is fine. The main benefit of a 6-point over a 4-point is that it holds you very firmly in the seat and stops you gradually slipping down in the seat on a long journey. It is surprisingly comfortable. Whilst theoretically you are less prone to injury because of the greater spacing of the race version, in practise this is academic - most of the load is taken by the hip belts if properly adjusted, and in a full-frontal your upper body goes foward pivotting around the hip-belts rather than submarining underneath. Also the plug-in is much quicker to use in everday use - a benefit not to be underestimated. Angus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Village Idiot Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 6 point Willans, crotch straps through d ring as described excellent grip/holding easy to adjust, takes me about 30 seconds to do up tight and comfy. Dicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddy Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Rob, if you go for the Caterham "4-point" option consider getting the crutch strap from Luke... They can supply the crutch strap with the more comfortable (IMO) T shaped plug rather than the trianular plug on the CC offering. As the 4-point is made by luke they will know exactly what crutch strap you need if you contact them. I've been down this route twice and find it works well... 4-point from CC & T-shaped crutch from Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Smith Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I’ve been using the 4-point with plug-in crotch straps for 10 years, and was very happy until I heard the stories about what could happen to your meat & two veg in a crash. I needed new harnesses this year (again…) so went for (pricey) Schroth ones with separate crotch straps, which loop over the lap belts, and sit each side of your tackle. Only used them a few times and it’s a bit more fiddley than the standard Caterham/Luke one (which I generally only used the 4-point on the road and the 6-point for racing) – for road, when big crashes hopefully aren’t regularly on the agenda, use I’d go for 4-points (and maybe a plug-in – you can tuck it under the seat when you’re not using it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Smith Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Rob, if you go for the Caterham "4-point" option consider getting the crutch strap from Luke... Or get the whole lot from Luke - exactly the same (apart from the price) except it says "Luke" rather than "Caterham" - which is good if your name is Luke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Patching Posted April 8, 2009 Author Share Posted April 8, 2009 thanks for the advice! recon I'll probably go for the 4 point plus the plug in then, as basically the main reason for me wanting the 5th point is so i can get the other 4 points tight without ending up with the belts round my nipples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchasey Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 The guys at Luke are very helpful too. I installed eye-bolts on the passenger seat mounting points and they made me up a Caterham sized harness that can clip onto the eye bolts rather then being bolted in permanently. So its a 30-second job now to add or remove the passenger harness and foam seat depending if I'm using on track or on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 I know I'm preaching to the converted, but... Belts around the nipples means that the waist strap isn't correctly positioned. You want most of the force to be taken by your hip and upper body area. The waist strap, when tightened up, should lie across the hip joint line a few inches above the todger area. If tightening the belt makes it rise, it means the anchor points are probably too high or too far back. Pulling down across your thighs means too low or too far forward. Basically, the tighter the waist belt gets when used on its own, the more it should not rise up or pull down. It should tighten square on the hip line, and be pretty tight too; much tighter than the shoulder straps. One common mistake is to overtighten the shoulder straps on 4 pointers, exacerbating the rise of the waist strap especially when badly adjusted or too lose. They should be sufficiently tight to prevent excessive movement, but not so tight that they pull hard on the waist strap. In an impact, you need that waist band to take its share of the load, and not just have your upper body pinned while your lower body slides under the waist strap because it's been yanked up on impact. 5 or 6 pointers have fewer problems, but the same rules apply. If you're using the crotch straps to pull the waist back down, it's not properly adjusted in the first place. End of lecture 😬 Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickbowyer Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Anyone know the part number for the Luke T-shaped plug crutch strap? Dick Superlight SV Duratec R400 Arch Inside 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddy Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 My invoice for the Luke T shaped plug in crutch strap has "MCS" in the "part no." column. Wether that's a proper part number or is an abbreviation of miscellaneous i am not sure!! Rather than just go by part numbers, phone Luke - as someone else has also said - they are very helpful and I've been down this route twice several years apart and their service was spot on both times when i explained what i needed Luke 01424 854499 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Patching Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 alex, I have the waste belts as tight as i can, and the shoulders looser, for exactly that reason, if i tighten then shoulders they pull the waste belts up, so i was thinking if I had the 5th point, i would be able to get the shoulder straps much tighter. Is this not the case? Also, how can i adjust the direction in which the waste belts pull towards, surely thats just dependant on the mounting points, which are fixed, and the position of the seat? I know up to the nipples was a slight exaggeration but I do end up with them up to my belly rather than my waste if I tighten the shoulder straps too much, which apart from anything else is quite uncomfortable. Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKB Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Seems the waist belts are a waste of time then *mad*sorry couldn't avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Rob You are correct in that the 5th or 6th point crotch straps do have a part to play in keeping the turn buckle correctly positioned. The hip straps should still be as tight as you can get them. Holding the hips in place is important. Irrespective of how tight the hip straps are pulled, when the shoulder straps are tightened they will tend to pull the hip strap upwards. The opposing pull of the straps between your legs help keep everything in the right place. ( ) The hip strap should be positioned so it is across the 'hook' bits on the front of your pelvis (medical term required?). If it rises above this and sits across your belly/abdomen it will not hold your hips in place in a front impact and, from the relatively reclined 7 driving position, your body will rapidly dissappear into the footwell - ouch I always use the crotch straps even on the road (I've read that some only "bother" with them for track driving). They only take a few seconds longer to fasten. I find that after the first few miles after setting off, the shoulder strap will always take another tweak to get them nice and snug once clothing etc has squashed down. Clunk-Click Peter BRAWNGP green SUPERLIGHT *tongue*There's no such thing as too much IQ per Pound 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I too use the 6 point Willans "D"-ring 6 point system . Sometimes referred to as "Monkey straps" I think (or something like that. Some oblique reference to nuts anyway) They work well in a full-on frontal impact. No nut issues at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alextangent Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 the 'hook' bits on the front of your pelvis (medical term required?). Anterior superior iliac spines It's the failed-ex-medic in me 😬 Alex McDonald Loud, louder, loudest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Thanks Alex! that's what I meant all along Now I can bet my belts on properly 😬 Peter BRAWNGP green SUPERLIGHT *tongue*There's no such thing as too much IQ per Pound 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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