VX Dry Sump Advice

[J7HPC]

Ok, so I've owned the car for a couple of months now and spent nothing on it save for a new headlight switch and gearknob BUT upgrades are bound to happen sooner or later and I'm thinking from my initial experiences that a dry sump might be the first thing to look at.

 

So, I have two questions:

 

1: From every bit of research i've done this will make my VX lump pretty bulletproof and is a very worthwhile upgrade.... thoughts?

 

2: Those of you that have done this, do you have opinions on the different products out there?

 

I was looking at the SBD kit: SBD Motorsport

 

But wondered what people thought and if anyone would care to advise pro or con?

 

Cheers all.

 

Rupert

[BarryT]

I can't really comment on the benefits over a wet sump in a Caterham, as mine has always been dry sump.

 

I have the Caterham set up which you can't buy, I think, but parts come on sale from time to time. The advantages of a Caterham system are:

Uses integral oil tank in bellhousing

Uses OEM pressure pump with external scavenge, so not as immediately catastropfic if the belt comes off

The biggest down side of this set up is the Caterham hydraulic slave cylinder which can cause problems - many threads on this. Also the de-aeration os not brilliant - needs a VHPD style conning tower but is not available for the Vx.

 

I have run an SBD system, on a single seater. I found it to be good, the main disadvantage is having to find a place for the oil tank, if you have an full passenger footwell. But slimline or tanks to fit in front of the engine can be bought.

If I was dry sumping from your starting point I would go the SBD route.

 

Barry

[J7HPC]

Thanks for the advice, handily the previous owner shortened the passenger footwell ready to dry sump so I think i'm a step in the right direction there.

 

 

Rupert

 

[Mick Day]

The SBD dry sump system looks as though it's made by PACE. I have a PACE system on my K series. 1 big advantage of the PACE system over the Caterham system is that it has dual scavenge from the sump. If the passenger footwell has been shortened then you are half way there, although to be fair the Caterham system can function quite well using a non-bellhousing tank.

[Paul Deslandes]

Rupert

 

The SBD system is made by Pace and, as I have a long footwell, I have it on my Vx with a special tank mounted in front of the engine, which is a PITA. If I want to do anything at the front of the engine such as change the cam belts, it has to come out. Picture of tank.

 

I agree with Barry re the advantages/disadvantages. There's no reason why you shouldn't use the OEM oil pump with a 2 stage scavange from either Triton (the Caterham ds pump) or Pace and use a Pace or other oil tank. You don't have to use the bell tank. You should change the OEM pump gear for a steel one to replace the sintered version which can break in half. I've seen one so its does happen and its worth doing. You may need a Caterham ds sump as I don't think the SBD sump will allow the oem pump to work. Not certain about that bit.

 

I'm paranoid about my 3 stage pump belt coming off and have a huge bright led oil pressure warning light which comes on at 35psi.

 

Either way, ds is the way to go and should liberate 12 to 15 bhp.

 

Paul

 

 

[Mavic82]

Go dry sump! After a 2 years of niggles with the wet sump the dry sump cured it all

 

Personally I think the caterham set up works well (made by Titon). I have fitted this with a remote Pace tank in front of the passenger footwell.

 

I don't know about the bell housing tank but all the other parts are available and sitting on the shelf at Titon. Or at least they were 4 weeks ago. It is a neat install and easy to fit.

 

Guy

[Dickie Normuss]

Either way, ds is the way to go and should liberate 12 to 15 bhp

And just how do you work that one out

 

VX HPC - Loud and proud here

Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere

[Mavic82]

Ric,

 

I would guess this comes from the issue of the crank splashing around in that oil with the wet sump. Not sure about power but it certainly seemed to 'free up' my engine at higher revs.

 

Guy

[Dickie Normuss]

It's a consideration but don't forget with DS you're running two pumps. The losses are porbably too small to measure but two use more power than one. I have to say I don't believe for a moment there will be any power increase from changing to DS.

 

VX HPC - Loud and proud here

Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere

[Paul Deslandes]

Caterham attributed a large amount of the power increase between the road going Vx and the Vx race car to going dry sump, 175 to 190bhp. And yes, it is crank oil thrash which is going to be worst at max revs where the top end power is generated.

 

 

[J7HPC]

Thanks for all the advice folks.

 

So my end result is that a pace or SBD kit looks like a good idea with the caterham specific sump plate and brackets. This "should" cure my issue with tappety noise after a hard blat and may or may not free up some power

 

Real power increases to come later with switch from Webbers to injection!

 

Rupert

[Roger King]

Dry Sumping most definitely does give a power increase, and the higher the revs, the more noticeable the difference.

 

As others have stated it is due to the crank and other moving parts not seeing so much drag from oil, plus if the system pulls a partial vacuum in the crankcase there is a reduction in aerodynamic drag.

 

In practice, the difference is larger on track than on a dyno - so far I've yet to see a dyno that simulates the effects of oil being thrown around the sump under braking, cornering and accelerating.

[Bob Simon]

I'm currently putting an SBD/Pace system on my XE. It's no trivial task (for me anyway). I couldn't imagine trying to do the job with the engine in the chassis. Consider the entire exercise 4, maybe 5 spanners on the Haynes difficulty scale.

 

The SBD kit is very complete, with just a few other bits left to round up yourself. You'll need to source a new crank bolt, front crank seal, oil pump gasket, oil tank, remote filter bracket, and hoses. I'd consider a new timing belt as well. Oh yeah, and it's a good time to eliminate the disintegrating GF50 idler pulley issue while you're at it. clicky

 

You'll have to give up your timing cover and run the belt and revolving bits naked in front of God and everybody. I don't relish the idea of loosing an engine from kitty litter inhaled into the belt train, so I'm building an infill plate out of nylon 6/6.

 

So far, everything is falling in place as it should. The only remarkable swearing episode occurred during the crank bolt removal exercise.

 

-Bob

94 HPC VX Evo III

 

[Mavic82]

Reading Bob's note I would certainly suggest using the Caterham system. As it uses the standard OE oil pump there is no need to expose your belts or even take them off. The whole kit was fitted easily with the engine in the car and had I had all the bits to hand at one time it was only really a days job. Getting the hoses neat and the right length was the most difficult part of the fitting.