finnie Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Hi Guys, merry christmas!!!!! Hope you enjoyed your blats today, unfortunately I'm on my rig so no blatting for me! Anyway while I'm away my emerald is at suppliers for upgrading to new version and I'm planning on fitting the wideband lambda (innovate lc-1) when it gets back. Hiope fully that might sort out my low rev kangaroo issues but I'm wondering where you guys who have one got it from. I've seen it on ebay but I'm a bit wary in case it's not got the right connectors etc. can anyone point me in the right direction to getting one. Any tips about fitting etc would be great too. Looked at K80 Rums site and biggles.net too. They are great but any other info would be great. Thanks Finnie New to this seven ownership, might as well start at the deep end! 203bhp Superlight Spec! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 25, 2008 Author Share Posted December 25, 2008 Ok just did a search for suppliers, sorry! Any tips welcome though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 bill@shurvinton.fsworld.co.uk Only dead fish go with the flow....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pikey Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I got mine off EBay. There are a few wires to put in place but they are very good indeed and fits in a standard caterham gauge hole and uses a standard M18 lambda thread. In the first place I bought the posh one with the fairy lights and LCD display in the middle (which I still have if you want that one) but I changed this one for the cheaper one with just the LCD display which is less annoying while drive at night. Didn't manage to totally eliminate my kangarooing but I could make it worse A trip to TTS's roling road at Silverstone is planned for the New Year. Jason Currently, I am qualified to plead ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 25, 2008 Author Share Posted December 25, 2008 Thanks guys I just emailed Bill after finding some more posts. All this Lambda stuff sounds pretty scary but i guess I'll just take my time, read as much as I can and see how it goes. Going to be in contact with Dave at Emerald for help so will ask him about it all. Will probably be asking a few on here for help too. Not aiming for any more power for now, just hoping to improve low speed running and low temp starting. Just out of interesting how many of you reckon a high tuned 1.8 k series will run around town. The past few runs I've had real trouble coming on throttle smoothly after coming off, i.e when following traffic. From Darrens post it seems quite possible and I hope he's right. If not I'm going to have to get training my right leg for some seriously delicate moves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 If the mapping is right there should be no problem running around town. When I had a highly tuned K it would pull smoothly from 1500rpm to 8500rpm in top gear. Suggest you contact Simon Tidmus re Inovate LC1. He has just finished with his kit and may be selling tel 07976 633997. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 27, 2008 Author Share Posted December 27, 2008 Bill Shurvinton isn't able to supply but am waiting for Simon to get back to me. In the meantime does anyone have experience with the techedge one from here http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html or getting one from ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Innovate-LC-1-Wideband-O2-LC1-controller-and-sensor_W0QQitemZ230314529937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item230314529937&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 Don't want to order the wrong thing! There seems so much instruction (ie the emerald manual!!) for the innovate one I'm a bit reluctant to go the techedge route Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pikey Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 I bought this one from Ebay and the company seemed ok.here Although I prefer the the simple analogue gauge with just the number shown on it only the XD-1 can be daisy chained to any other Innovate stuff you might want to run though the LC-1. Jason Currently, I am qualified to plead ignorance. Edited by - Jason Fletcher on 27 Dec 2008 20:42:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Best Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Speak to Dave Walker at Emerald he will map the car with a wide band lamda, I was going to buy an LC1 before the trip to the RR but since it is now mapped properly don't feel a need for it. The only real problem is that Emerald is a long drive. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Ian, The map I saw for the M3D Emerald didn't have the closed loop enabled. If you have upgraded to a K3 Emerald now and your issue is light throttle, low to mid speed you could use the standard lambda sensor to adaptively map with a stoichiometric target. At the very least that would highlight any lean areas of the mapping. E-mail if you need any help. Don't underestimate what a crap throttle action can do for low speed controllability by the way. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 HI Ian I have no closed loop yet as it's the old emerald. It's away right now getting upgraded so will refit it with a wideband lambda and try that. Finlay had a go of it with the new map and he had no problems so it is also partly to do with my driving style. Have to bear in mind I have only done around 100 miles and that was his third Caterham though! As I've said already the main problem is when I roll off the gas in traffic I find it really hard to get back on it again. If I boot it then no problem but smoothly re-applying power is so hard. I've never had this trouble on any other cars. I'm sure it can be improved more though and I'm also hoping to improve the cold starting. At the moment I am using a battery booster and having 4 to 5 attempts before it fires and keeps going, even then I'm having to sit with 3000 rpm for a few minutes before it settles enough that I can jump out and remove the cable and replace the bonnet. Really hoping the wideband lamnda sorts it a bit more. Can't do any harm to make sure the AFR is right anyway Andy, I'm afraid a trip to Emerald is out of the question as it's literally the opposite end of the country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Hi Finnie I'm sure this was already covered, but I wanted to check whether you had the "Cut off all fuel if...(overrun cutoff)" unticked on the Events tab. People seem to be split on whether they use this or not and many do, in order to avoid wasting fuel. I much preferred mine unticked and found I had much more kangerooing and an on/off throttle action at slow speeds, which I found wearing. If you have do have it ticked, it might be worth checking what throttle pot and engine speed values others are using. Best of luck with the Innovate work if you decide to go with it. Sorry to read you were on the rig over Xmas - I hope you're off it for a while soon to enjoy the blatting. Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Duratec/SuperlightR hybrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 Hi Darren Yeah I meant to untick that box but as the car was in a mates garage I always had the excitement of taking the car out make me forget to check that box. Again it's worth a go. Installing the lambda should be interesting. Found a good reasonable source for the lambda but will order it when I am closer to home time. I think the scariest bit will be finding a switched power supply to tap into and if I am right in this disconnecting the current lambda. Not decided about indicating LED yet but I'll see what access to dash is like. Same goes for three way map switch. Kind of want to keep dash standard in case I ever sell it (not planning but there is always possibility of nice new R500 style switches or even stack sometime) Might put map switch under bonnet but in car would be handier if I can find somewhere under dash for it. Again all depends on dash access as it's siliconed down so will prob attack from scuttle side. All decisions to make when I get back and have to install the "new" emerald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 Oh meant to say Darren any tips you have regarding cold starting would be great. Also noticed when i downloaded your maps that you had much much more fuel going in than I do, is that because you have changed the injection to individual (may have the wrong terminology, working off memory from the last time I looked at you map). It's just that our engines sound very similar (1.8k VHPD head, piper 185 cams forged pistons but different throttle bodies and I'm not sure about injection system) Oh yeah one more question while I am at it, Is it better to have the emerald controlling the fan or just leave it as normal, I'm reasonably sure that mine is just set to 86 manually. Could be wrong though but not even sure how to check Caterhams are a steep learning curve. Good thing about being on a rig is that I have plenty of time to research things!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Hey Finnie, Completely agree - owning a Caterham can present a steep learning curve, but its a great place to give it a go, I was encouraged by this supportive and informative community to learn and try things I've not previously dared to (I'm trying my hand at my first nut-and-bolt engine build at the moment ) I've got faith that tick box will be ticked and unticking it will quite dramatically change the car's behaviour at low throttle openings. If it is/does, it may just be a case of figuring out what in the map needs adjusting to make the effect of the fuel cut-off less abrupt. Bear in mind that my cold-starting success might have been more luck than judgement but I started from the position that my hot starting was excellent and the cold starting was pretty good, both in warm weather (I wasn't using an idle air control valve), so the map I used as a basis must have been a good match to start with. I experimented with improving the summer cold starting by playing around with the coolant corrections only for a couple of temperature sites corresponding to the summer ambient air temps. I worked on the principle that my hot summer starting was spot on and the only difference was coolant temperature, so that was the place I should concentrate any changes. I tried increasing and decreasing these values until I was happy. Come the winter months I used the same approach, again the hot starting was good so I only bothered with Winter cold starting. This time I didn't want to mess about with the coolant correction too much since most of these sites were set up well for the summer temperatures, so I concentrated mainly on the air temperature corrections for the zero degree sites and a couple of the low coolant temperature sites that I wouldn't encounter in the summer. It was all experimentation with the values, but I made sure I knew what I'd started from and made small incremements/decrements at a time. In the end I was able to start the car without touching the throttle in temperatures of -3 degrees. It'd start and idle straight away without an IACV. It was immensely rewarding to see that kind of improvement. Starting with an IACV seems much easier at all temperatures, I only ever saw a trade-off in terms of immediate tickover. In order to get a nice solid tickover of 1200rpm when warm, I had to put up with a catch, dip, then recover and idle smoothly when cold. I'm sure this was in part because the idle stabilisation in the software was doing it's job. If I had more expertise I might have been able to dial the dip out. It's going to be interesting to see whether I can create a halfway decent map for the new engine before taking it to R&R. I haven't changed my injection but the wideband may have, since I'll have committed it's corrections table to the main map in the past. This might account for it? I had the Emerald controlling the fan but I don't think it matters overly. Karl at Emerald mentioned to me a while back that the new software supports 2 fan speeds - a blatting fan on/fan off and a stationary fan on/fan off to cope with sitting in traffic/pit lanes. Your fan may be controlled by a thermostatic switch in the top of the radiator (in which case it bypasses the Emerald completely) In order to have the Emerald control the fan, you'll have a wire from one of the pins (I can't remember which offhand ☹️) but it'll run feed into an external relay which then goes to the fan) If you've got anyhthing in the radiator with wires coming out of it, chances are you're thermostatically-controlled rather than ECU-controlled Darren E K80 RUM Website and Emerald maps library Duratec/SuperlightR hybrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Ian, I think you missed what I was trying to say. The old Emerald had closed loop features. They just weren't enabled in the map I saw. A simple tickbox setting. Presuming that you have the standard lambda probe fitted to the manifold, you could try mapping light load settings using that sensor with the K3 and might not need to spend the cash and effort of installing the wideband unit. Unless you want to that is............... Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 Thanks guys, the support here is great! Can't wait to get home now and try it all. From what I'm reading today I reckon I'll try and untick the overrun box and see how that goes. If that fials then the plan will the to try the closed loop lambda at low sites, i.e. where I'm having trouble and see what happens then. If that all fails then I'll go for the wideband. Also asked Dave at Emerald to have a look at the map to see if he has any suggestions regarding all of this. I guess we'll see maybe tomorrow once the world opens up again or maybe after New Year. Plenty to try when I get home now, only three and a bit weeks to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 i have my laptop with me so i checked out the other sections last night and found the closed loop bit, definately worth a try before buying a wideband. Darren looked last night and was not treferring to your map, sorry! Have downloaded a few more to compare. It was another SLR map that is just before yours (saved as 7.4.fig that i was looking at) It still has very high injection timings though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Ian don't forget to compare the injector scaling AND the fuel map values when comparing maps. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finnie Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 Just out of interest Ian if you have time, compare Finlay_rev with v7.4 on K80rums site, very similar spec engine but the injection times are almost double. Can't see why really but then i am new to this. Ignition is pretty similar though, just a few wee differences that i may try to reflect sometime. Finnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Can't find a map of that title on Darren's site. You would need to E-mail the maps you are comparing. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 yhm Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now