Jason Plato Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 why fit a dry sump to a duratec ? the raceline wet sump pan baffle works. Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 edited because I thought twice about my reply to Dave J. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 1 Feb 2008 11:04:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Brent, your not going soft on us...? JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 😬 No of course not. It wasn't going to be a pop at Dave (in which case I would have left it ) but I deleted it for other reasons. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 big feckin jessie apologies to anyone called Jessie - it wasnt a racist slurr, even if you have to be a one armed overweight black lesbian called Jess. 😶🌫️ Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Shame on you sir! Don't you feel rather responsible for one of the problems that poor one armed overweight black lesbian has to bear in her sordid little life? It's probably only through eating pies that she is so overweight in the first place. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 aye fair point now back to why run a ds on a duratec ? Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Ok, here goes. I can't speak for others obviously (well maybe one other) but in my case, I became hacked off with persistant oil pressure woes on both my 2.3 Duratecs the symptoms of which, in both cases, pointed to oil starvation/aeration and thus pump cavitation as the revs increased above 4-4500. This phenomenon was noted with both electrical and mechanical oil pressure gauges and always with the oil capacity at the 5L recommended and at normal running temperatures. I'm not apportioning blame anywhere, but simply stating the bare facts as I and others witnessed on numerous occasions both with my car and another similarly equipped. Oil pressure would fall from a normal 75psi to 35 and still heading downwards when I chickened out and backed off, at which point the O.P. would slowly rise again. I did start a thread about this some 30 months ago when it happened with my first engine, just after running in and starting to extend the revs, in order to try and find a solution but none was forthcoming at that time. Because I no longer wished to drive along with one eye on the road and t'other on the O.P. gauge, I decided to do something positive and go to a dry sump. Hopefully, problem now solved. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 1 Feb 2008 14:16:39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Dave, I recon Brent is trying his best to make his car as heavy as possible. As we have found out on our own cars the dry sump is simply not a necessity on a Duratec with the raceline sump fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I won't get drawn on this subject any further but suffice to say that given a choice on my car of less weight and a knackered engine or more weight and an engine that lasts, I chose the latter option. It is an SV after all so what difference does a separate oil tank and a couple of oil pipes make? 😬 Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Brent, What I found interesting when building the last car was that the Raceline bell housing did not align with two of the blind thread holes in their wet sump pan ????? Now this surprised me as the Titan bellhousing that I have previously used on all the other cars that I have built aligned with all 4 of the holes in the Raceline sump pan. One would have thought that their own pan would have aligned with all 4 holes I wouldn`t worry too much about the fixings into the sump pan. If you had selected the Pace DS pan you would have had no fixings into the pan what so ever. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Surprised about the holes not lining up. I did wonder about leaving the bolts out on the 2 lower ones in the sump pan and I have been told today of other high power Duratecs running in that state so maybe I will forget them. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Brent Ok understand your choice re ds. Clearly you dont wish to get drawn into a large debate but do you think there is a possiblity that some of the early 2.3 engines that were circulating could have had inherrant issues as a result of there history / use and this coudl have been affecting the oil pressure ? Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Listen Jacko, don't keep upsetting the indians. If they all want to spend loadsa dosh on expensive ds kit thats not needed and making their cars heavier let them do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I can't say for sure Dave and I really don't know why there was a problem with my car and others I know of yet others still, don't appear to have had any problems. It is a complete mystery to me and certain persons who would know better than I. Both my engines were brand spanking new builds although to be fair the problem whilst still evident on the second engine was nowhere near as bad. For sure, this problem isn't limited to the 2.3 engines either but again, I don't fully understand why it only affects some and not others. Maybe the few who have had the problem were just unlucky but for me to have it twice on different engines is more than just bloody unlucky...........it's sodding tragic! Anyhow, as I said earlier I'm not apportioning any blame and still have a very high regard for everbody I have dealt with during this saga. I was given exceptional help to try and resolve the problem but in the end it defeated them all. C'est la vie, we must move on. I view it as just one of those things that happen when you are struck with this upgradeitis bug, particularly where the components being used are still in the relatively early stages of their development. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Brent , were you losing op under acceleration only or did it occur while cornering and/or braking 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 With the 2.3 isn't the dry sump also useful for ground clearance? as the engine is a bit taller, in my install with the raceline cam cover the top of the engine is only just clear of the bonnet. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 MM, it was losing op whilst cruising so can't be explained by oil surge which, in any case, I wouldn't expect to see on such a well baffled wet sump. I had a Raceline wet sump on my last car with a Zetec and that was great, couldn't fault it at all. Rob, the Cosworth ds actually appears to be the same depth as the Raceline wet sump so no advantage there curiously. Mickrick, sorry your gearbox thread seems to have strayed off onto sumps. Hope you don't mind but at least it is all relevant to Duratecs. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Hmm I wonder how it compares with the Pace dry sump pan I'm running. I have one in the garage which I could measure over the weekend if you fancy running a tape measure of the Cosworth one. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Rob, I think that you have to consider that the same engine mounts are used for both the 2& 2.3L and the 2.3 is circa 13mm taller but the engine mounts are well down the block so the extra height is above the mounts. There is of course some ground clearance to be had if you pick the right DS system, the titan one offering the least gain and Racelines new system in theory offering the most. " when Peter ever gets it into production". I have the Raceline wet sump on my car along with the Raceline engine mounts, I have also installed 8mm of spacer washers on top of the side rail engine mounts to lift the engine up off the deck allowing the rest of the car to be lowered as much as is possible. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Crikey! You've all been busy while I was away! Interesting stuff. Absolutly no way I'd spend a mint on a new engine, and stick a wet sump on But that's my choice. And as Brent pointed out, my car's an SV too, so I may as well put some leather sofas in while I'm at it. 😬 And I have enough foot room to drive to the kebab shop in my slippers! If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Sorry, I inadvertently misled you earlier on, I had forgotten the Cosworth sump tapers from back to front. It is 76mm deep at the rear (same as Raceline wet sump) but only 62mm at the front so a useful gain where you need it most. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 1 Feb 2008 18:45:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 If you speak to Cosworth nicely.....they'll sell you a 275hp 2.3 off the shelf. With the option of steel crank, dry sump, with none of that pace stuff hanging off the side. And other goodies. If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n james Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 brent, i might just have an answer to your oil pressure problem! i had a 190 E merc with the same sort of op problem, eg losing op while cruising, it turned out to be that the oil pump was so efficient it was sucking the oil out of the sump quicker than it could drain back down, and it only seemed to happen at steady high revs eg while cruising , not short bursts of high revs thru the gears, also only when the oil level was a bit low. it could also explain why some cars do it, and not others, due to slightly different rough castings in the engine changing the speed that oil can drain back down, nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Yes thanks Nick, we did eventually get to the bottom of the problem but thankfully that should all be behind me now. Mickrick, nah you don't want one of those common old Cosworth engines when you can have one custom built by.......................ssschhhh, you know who. Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 1 Feb 2008 20:53:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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