AMMO Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Mickrick The 2.2 is the engine I would have for myself. It is the best compromise between torque, revs and power. I am convinced that the thinking behind the 2.2 is correct. Most of all I like the idea of it being oversquare. I have built Duratecs in six different capacities now. The 2.2 is still my favourite. if you want more torque and something lazier then the bored 2.3 to 2,340 cc is the way to go. Spoke to someone yesterday that told me Roy Millington is thinking of selling his business to persue other activities. Farming I think. Don't know if this is just a rumour. If true it will be interesting to see if anybody takes the company over. Brent A fabulous engine with lots of tuning potential and lots of bits being continously developed for it. You've never had it so good! 😬 Ammo Raceco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 BDX as an alternative 😬 Looks lovely between the chassis rails, sounds fantasic, and has Caterham link via BDG engined cars Anthony Car is nearly ready, but I have be saying that for at least a year :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Anthony BD's are great if you are into the historic look and feel. I have a friend who has a car with a BDG. The engine alone was 16K I think. Lots of interest still in these. There have been a couple come through the workshop over the past year or so. Guess what? I was only talking about the Swedish Volvo guy the other day and he phoned me last night for a chat. The crazy Volvo 4 pot engine is currently 3 litres with plans to take it to 3.2! It's making 340 bhp and 390 Nm of torque at 4,700 rpm. That's 287 ft lbs! I'm thinking of jumping on a plane to visit him. This I got to see. Oh, and it's 2 valves per cylinder. Which makes it even more amazing. It is used in Rallycross and hillclimbs and being fitted to rwd Escorts. It's beating BMW 6 cylinder, V6 Nissans etc. He did say the driver was very good though. Bit porky at 125 kilos but with that sort of power you can forgive it. Probably no worse than a Pinto and they probably only make 210 bhp on a good day. I love this sort of stuff. It's such a silly idea to make an engine like this. I like the idea that someone is crazy enough to do it. 😬 Ammo Raceco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 390nm I think the bloke is perfectly normal! 😬 p.s. no response from Roy Millington. Maybe the guy is "A funny bugger" To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Another point to make is the Millington and the Bd are essentially race engines whilst the duratech base engines are readily available should the worst happen and you need a replacement engine. or check out this monster here Dave Edited by - DaveK on 18 Jan 2008 14:15:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 281 nm, not bad, but a heavy old lump. The Millington may be a race engine, but at 340hp should be quite a reliable unit, these engines can go up to 500hp with forced induction, and they should be light, having an alloy block. The BD has an iron block doesn't it? I agree, bang for buck, the Duratec is unbeatable at the moment. AMMO, what numbers were you getting out of the 2340 unit? It's starting to get interesting! To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Dave K Pretty impressive dyno graph. Mickrick We got just shy of 300 bhp and around 218 ft lb. The engine was not optimised for cam timing or fuelling. We normally pick up another 4 or 5 bhp when optimised and another 4-5 after some running. It was a bit of an experiment really and taken off the rolling road as we had run out of time and had to go home. The same engine with the same head was de-stroked and converted to 2.2 and made 305 bhp. Ammo Raceco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Crikey! So it made more hp de-stroked! But I suppose it lost some torque? What would you limit the rpm's to on a 2340, as opposed to a 2.2? I guess it's swings and roundabouts, gain some here, lose some there. Do you have the facility, or do you have the use of one, to run your engines on a dyno out of the car? Thanks for the numbers. Mick. To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I think I can tell you what Ammo recommends as a rev limit on one of his 2340 engines. It is 7500! Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 and 9,200 on the 2.2l ? R400 Duratec Build and Modification Pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 The BD has an iron block doesn't it? Some do, some have ally blocks. For what they cost c.£35K for a Richardson BDG, about half that for a Wilcox one, I suppose most people get an ally block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 Wilcox, that brings back some memories! I used to go there to get my Escorts set up on his rolling road, in the 80's, when I was a spotty faced Yoof. 😬 Is he still in Hinckley? To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Mickrick The 2.2 lost around 8 ft lb over the 2.340 cc engine. We rolling road test and map at Emerald. As a lot of Caterham owners test there it gives us a good comparison to everybody else. Emerald should have their Superflow 901 engine brake going soon (they've been saying that for a while now!). That way engines can be mapped before they go in the car. Brent 7,500 rpm for stock 94 mm cranks and 8,300 rpm for engines with steel cranks. Big valve 2,340 engines with hot cams, big exhaust and throttle bodies make max power at around 8,000 rpm. The 2.2 goes to 9,000 rpm. 2 litre engines will eventually go to 10,000 rpm. Ammo Raceco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 20, 2008 Author Share Posted January 20, 2008 Thanks AMMO My plan, when I know what I'm doing, is to drive over to collect my engine, in my truck, bring it back here and carry on building the car. I will then have to bing the car over to U.K. for, suspension set up (Probably at Freestyle), rolling road, and SVA. Sounds a bit long winded and complicated. But you have no Idea how complicated it would be to get it registered over here! I still have a U.K. address, so much easier to register in U.K. then bring the car over as a personal import. So, basicaly it would be nice to have a motor that has been set up on a brake first, to drop straight in. This'll do your head in....what are your thoughts on a BDG? I used to be indecisive....but now I'm not so sure! Cheers, Mick. To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Does the cat not need a new engine for the registration? I seem to recall it is done on a points system. Worth checking, as you may have to get a brand new engine to get a current plate. 1.8 DVA'd SuperSpurt still on L Plates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 20, 2008 Author Share Posted January 20, 2008 Hi Hibster, there are people still manufacturing brand new parts for BD's. To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Mickrick Can't get excited about a BDG. Just doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. If I look at one I don't lust after it. It's been around for a long time. All the development work has been done. There are specialists churning them out for historic racing or for enthusiasts of that engine that can afford the asking price. The Duratec still has a future. Still exciting for me as new parts get made and the engine developed. The BD only has a past. Ok if you like to look back with rose tinted spectacles. Only my opinion. Don't want to offend the BD devotees. Ammo Raceco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yes I can see if your into the developement side of engines, an engine that's been developed as far as it can go, doesn't hold any attraction. From a customer point of view though, I would like to think I'm buying an engine that's been developed to its best. But I suppose the Duratec has already surpassed a BD. The attraction for me, with these engines, (BD's) apart from the fact they do look good, and sound amaizing! is the pedigree. A bit like an expensive watch, if most people where honest with themselves, they would admit a £50 Casio is probably better at the job, but there's something about the feel of a £3000 Omega. A Seven fitted with a BDG would be a bit special, don't you think? Or am I living in a Vacum on this Island? Maybe there are loads about, and I just don't get to see them here ☹️ To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid. Edited by - Mickrick on 21 Jan 2008 08:52:39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 What would you do with a good BDG 🤔 - sell it and build two Busa's. Old and wise is o.k. but young and stupid is more fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 mm that'll be one of these then here If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal mickey Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Possibly, but whats the point in a 7 🤔 I can appreciate the engineering but why use a sledge hammer to crack the nut 🤔 Personally a busa making a reliable 250BHP would be the ultimate 7 engine. Why make life complicated when simple things work best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Mickrick "they would admit a £50 Casio is probably better at the job, but there's something about the feel of a £3000 Omega." There is also something about the feel of £2,950.00 in cash in your pocket that I find quite nice 😬 For me it is simple really. The Duratec is the engine that I like the most out of the current crop of production engines. It does a good as or better job than a BD for less money. If something better comes along I would switch allegiance. So far I haven't seen anything that floats my boat as much as the Duratec (apart from the little 2 litre 600 bhp turbo engine that AER are working on for Mazda, but they cost £100.000.00, so a bit out of my price range!). Exotic engines may look and sound nice but at the end of the day the engine is there to make the wheels go round and round. How well it does that job is important. The Duratec does a very good job indeed. It also sounds nice to me, and as for looks, I never look at the engine from one month to the next, so who cares? If you were building a BEC the Hayabusa has to be the engine of choice with the Blackbird a close second. I wouldn't bother with a V8 personally as a properly tweaked BEC is more than I can handle anyway. But that isn't going to stop other people who want a V8. I fully understand that there is a need to be different and to stand out from the crowd a bit. If we all were the same life would be boring. That still doesn't answer the question of what engine you are going to fit does it? 😬 Ammo Raceco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Millington Diamond 2 litre for sale. 266 bhp / 182 ft lb. Cost new 20K. Asking price is 14.5K. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170187259625&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007 Ammo Raceco.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Wrt MD on Ebay......"500 miles from brand new and 200 miles from last rebuild" So it needed a rebuild after 300 miles then? That's worse than an R500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 Check out the car he's selling too 🥰 here I'm off to the bathroom with a box of tissues! If all around you say it can't be done, all the more reason to do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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