tapppety K series again I know sorry

[Gee Whizz]

Can I get some clarification from the K series brigade out there.

 

When you push the car hard and corners are involved (wet sump likely surge) do any of you hear the tappets tapping until the oil sorts itself out again and things calm down?

 

generally happens to me when the oil level is a little low (still have plenty of pressure)

 

I do remember a while back at a dunsfold handling day other cars coming in sounding like a bag of bolts with tapping tappets but wasnt sure what engines they had.

 

Do you other K series owners experience this?

 

Gavin

Striving to offer no value what so ever!

[Bozz]

Gavin

 

Do you have an Apollo tank?

 

 

Bozz

 

McLaren Orange and Black 1.6SS 6 Speed here

[rj]

If the car has wet sump and no apollo tank, yes!

 

And you're then about to kill your engine ☹️

[rj]

MTF!

[Mark Piper]

I found that switching to a "thicker" oil - 10 or 15/40 or 50 quietened the tappets in my Supersport and HPC. At the next oil change, why not switch to this type of grade?...also make sure you keep it well filled with oil.

[Dannyboy]

Mine does this when driving enthusiastically and on track day/ sprints! It all calms down when the oil cools though..Not sure if it's a sign of the hydraulic lifters on the way out...

 

Means I always do a steady cool down after a run!

 

I run an apollo and synthetic 10w40 oil.

 

Dannyboy

 

[Gee Whizz]

hmm no apollo for me.

 

Caterham actually suggested to me to use the eurolite oil think its a 10-40w in their at the moment as apposed to their 0-50 motosport comma caterham that is supposed to be used in the supersport.

 

Seems a bit silly and almost not fit for purpose that I can do this on Ao21's on regular country roads and not really pushing it. even the odd roundabout will do it.

 

the oil pressure is always up near 4 even when this occurs, sometimes there is a slight (i mean tiny) drop in pressure but nothing serious (hard to look at the oil pressure gage when driving around a corner!)

 

Gavin

Striving to offer no value what so ever!

[Gee Whizz]

now I understood that all the apollo did was to take the air bubbles out of the oil (due to thrashing) by spinning the oil down the apollo tank.

 

It doesnt stop any oil surging away in the sump?

 

Am I wrong?

 

Gavin

Striving to offer no value what so ever!

 

Edited by - Gee Whizz on 12 Apr 2007 00:56:48

[oilyhands]

That is what it is designed to do, but it also acts as an intermediary in the oil supply system, storing a good volume of oil. If your pump starts to deliver air or and air/oil mix, this will enter the top of the apollo and maintain the pressure in the cannister pushing neat oil out of the bottom into the system, thereby avoiding the affects of surge and precluding the possibility of large volumes of air/aerated oil entering you followers or worse still, your bearings.

 

oily

[Simon.seven]

I got a tappet noise on my 1.6k and cured it with thicker oil.

 

Simon

 

AHB 11

[martinwhitcher]

"I got a tappet noise on my 1.6k and cured it with thicker oil"

 

you have not cured it, all you would have done is "hide it"

 

not the solution, be warned!

 

if you are on track without a appollo you are in grave danger of big end bearing failure, with appollo you better not run slicks or you too will have bearing pick-up.

 

Martin

 

MW 51 CAT

Superlight No.171

now known as:Superlight DVA 250

[Mark Piper]

you have not cured it, all you would have done is "hide it"

 

🤔

[Phil]

Hydraulic tappet follows the cam profile by moving up and down.

 

Burnt oil on tappet prevents lubrication and movement. [varnishing]

 

Tappet stays still, cam lobe hits tappet and makes horrible noise.

 

Un educated owner uses "ficker oil" then tells everyone else how wonderful it is.

 

All the tappets need is cleaning, in most cases.

 

The oil has an additives package to clean this, hence the engine after a while stops making the noise.

 

PREVENTION

 

When you have hammered your car, do not just turn it off, let it tickover for a few minues, this lets the oil disipate the heat, cleaning the components and preventing the oil from burning onto a hot spot.

 

Change your oil more frequently or upgrade to a fully synthetic or both.

 

Take advice only from an oil engineer rather than a sales person, mechanic or engine builder when thinking of changing grades.

 

Check your oil level regularly, do not over fill.

 

Do not become 🙆🏻 retentive about cost of oil when you have spent x amount on your car.

 

If your car is used on the track, think about changing the oil after every event, track days every two to three events.

 

X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990

ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR

 

 

[Phil]

Changing the oil [correct fill or ficker] simply introduces a fresh additives package, this cleans the engine and in most cases then stops the tappets from making the noise giving the impression the ficker oil cured it, wrong.

 

Ficker oil only results in a loss of BHP as the engine works harder to push it around with increased pressure.

 

For every day use and occasional track day do not stray away from the recommended hot grade ie /40

The cold start up grade if recommended a 10w/ stick to this or better i.e. 5w/ or 0w/ as this will ease starting and prevent engine wear, nothing to do with the weather.

 

On a K series engine a 10w/40 semi synthetic is the standard fill, an improvement on this would be a 5w/40 fully synthetic or better still a 0w/40 fully synthetic.

 

X/FLOW 1700 DD 1990

ROAD USE ONLY..SO FAR

 

 

[wag]

I am using 5W40 fully synth on my 1600 Sl. It makes a tappety clatter after prolonged running at 5000rpm or so. Nothing to do with corners. I am not good enough to drive fast round corners.

[Mark Piper]

Phil, re the "thicker" oil - does the first or second number determine the "thickness"? What happens to a "thin" oil if you run a series of laps on a track at high revs - does it get stay the same or does it get "thinner"?

 

I noticed the other day that the oil I used in my frying pan got noticeably thinner after I heated it up and was just wondering whether this type of phenomenom occurred in engine oil too?

[oilyhands]

Burnt oil on tappet prevents lubrication and movement. [varnishing]

 

Tappet stays still, cam lobe hits tappet and makes horrible noise.

 

Un educated owner uses "ficker oil" then tells everyone else how wonderful it is.

 

All the tappets need is cleaning, in most cases.

 

That is an oversimplification and tends to distract from a more comon problem of oil aeration, air in the oil is compressible unlike pure oil so the follower collapses when operated rather hydraulically locking, this causes follower noise. The aeration of the oil has other far worse affects that have no symptoms until you experience failure, rattly tappets can be an early indication that your engine is suffering from oil surge, if the tappets are full of air then you can bet your bearings are too, even a momentary breakdown of the oil film in your bearings is enough to cause irreparable damage.

 

oily

[Dannyboy]

Ooh...don't tell me that Dave!!

 

Can't afford another visit to you!!

 

Mine appears at consistent running at highish revs on motorway..ie 4.5k or so....however, hoping the change to fully synth may cure this..

 

The foam on the bleed from the cam cover to the apollo had some foam adjacent it...could this reduce the efficiency of the apollo for de-aereation?

 

Dannyboy

 

[wag]

My rattle was after consistent high speed mortorway type running. Does this lead to foaming of the oil? Presumably no other reason the pickup should be drawing air.

[Mark Durrant]

The problem with the wet sump set up in a K is the crank thrashes through the oil causing aeriation hence the need for an Apollo tank.

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[The Polisher]

 

There is a seldom publicised manufacturing error in some K series heads which results in a poor oil supply to one or more tappets resulting in rattling when the oil is thin.

 

The quality issue relates to the angled oil feed holes from the top surface of the head into the cam follower bores which should break into the bores in line with the cam follower oil groove when the valves are closed. Some of the holes on my head and a number of collegues heads have broken out too high up the cam follower bore such that there is hardly any oilway exposed even when the valve is fully closed. The cure is to remove the cams and ladder, pull out the followers and dremmel an extension to the hole on the ones that are too high.

 

This action has cured tappet rattle every time.

 

Dave H.

Mad about S77ENS

[wag]

I know the crank has an effect and overfilling is bad but, the oil in the sump is never touched by the crank. There is a metal baffle plate and (possibly) the famous foam separating the two.

[patneale]

Mark,

You need the best possible oil in "your" car and you should not go wrong with the Caterham supplied oils which are Comma ones.

Go to www.valvoline.com and then to Fuels and lubricants and all the 0-40W details and more will be revealed.

And yes the same happens in your frying pan it get thinner as it gets hotter ,but as you will see from the valvoline details they put so much more into engine oils to prevent sheer and many other things!!

My car and Debbies would probably get to the pub on cooking oil as well , but yours must have the best regularly !

Going to the Pub tonight - our monthly meeting ??

 

HUGH

[Mark Piper]

Hi Hugh, I'll be there complete with "ficker" oil in my car.

[old captain slow]

Just picking up on the varnish - sticky point. I had a sticky tappet for ages. Collective wisdom on here was it was probably down to turning off the engine too quick after it had been on track and heat soak from the head was carbonisinfg the oil around the tappets. I now let it idle for a bit when I get back to the paddock and there must be something in it because the ticking on the "sticky" tappet has gradually disappeared over time.

 

C7 CDW