super7mick Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Hi I have a low mileage caterham 1600 XF that smokes from the oil filler and dipstick. You can see the fumes coming through the vents in the bonnet when stationary and smell them too. The engine otherwise appears in perfrct health. No blue smoke and goes like stink. Has anyone any ideas on how to cure this problem? Cheers Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lardy40 Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Me personally.....just love the smell of hot oil, My x-flow does the same Mick, the person i brought it off (Hi Ivan) stuck two patches of Ali on the inside of the bonnet over the vents closest to the windscreen just above the breather tank, the only reason i can think is he did'nt find the smell of oil nice...strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Does it have a crankcase breather fitted? What grade of oil are you using? Is this fitted with 40 DCOES? R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Mick, Ditto....... Do you have a block breather 🤔 Later (1990's) Caterham supplied crossflow engines had no breather at all except for the oil filler cap. The breather hole is above the fuel pump and below the carbs, but the later engines were supplied with this plugged up. With a plugged hole and a bit of spirited driving the engine will breath heavily via the filler cap and dipstick tube. I had exactly this problem with my new Caterham supplied 1600 engine and had to fit a block breather/catch tank. Gavin. prisoner 43 C12 KAR - OCTANE magazine photoshoot for article on prisoner edition 7 here Edited by - Gavin on 27 Oct 2006 21:22:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7mick Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 Hi it does have a breather which is a small empty tank below the carbs. It also has a tube coming from this into what is essentially a jam jar. I tried blowing through the tube from the small tank end and the seal in the jar is so good that it gives the impression of being blocked. It does have 40 DCOEs fitted. I am not sure what grade of oil is in it at the moment - what do you suggest? I am wondering if the jam jar is stopping it breathing hence the fumes from the filler and dipstick? Regards Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yes it sound like the breather set up you have could well be blocked, which is causing the fumes. R500 Mango Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lardy40 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hi Mick, sensible answer here...the little "box" below the carbs is called an oil separator assembly which allows the engine to breath while removing any oil droplets, situated in that separator assembly is a PCV valve (positive crank ventilation valve) this valve sits on a spring which.… studying the drawing, causes the valve to sit on a seat while the engine isn't running..now while the engine Is running this Valve lifts of its seat allowing the engine to breathe (breathe meaning those piston hammering up and down displacing air and if your unlucky... gases from combustion..piston ring leakage) Blowing down the hose from the open end will give an indication of it being blocked as the PCV is effectively shut, the Good book says take the hose off and check for free movement of the valve and clear any sludge away. If on the other hand while the engine is running and there is a positive pressure from the comming from the hose it is a good indication that you have leakage of combustion gasses from the rings..there is a way to test each piston for ring and valve seat leakage without removing the head using an instrument called a Pystock pot meter...not the kind of thing we keep in garages. Now having just check my X-flow engine and blown down the pipe YUCK! air is moving so ive whipped of the breather pipe and found the PCV has been removed, if yours is fitted it will give an indication of blockage just check its freedom. As for fumes hot engines will give off fumes don't worry too much about it, the X-flow engine breather system used to redirect these fumes back into the air filter to be sucked in as part of the combustion air. Hope this answers your question and sorry for waffling on as you can see the winter night are a hoot in my house. regards Mark.....29 years an engineer and a diesel specialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7mick Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share Posted October 28, 2006 Hi I have checked mine and it is just an empty box - no valve. However I am going to fit a proper breather/collector and I think this will cure the problem. The jam jar fitted is causing the fumes to be forced through the dipstick and the oil filler. Cheers Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murf99 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murf99 Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Mick pressed wrong button on last message I have same problem on my 92 Supersprint Only done 8k Has a Ratsport catch tank and puffs through filter and dipstick I have Dellortos I thought i had an Oil Ring problem ? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 A hot x flow will give out oily fumes TADTS - if it's really excessive then combustion gasses are pressurising the crankcase and the engine needs rebuilding - but a fair amount really is normal. allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macquarie Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 The block breather needs to be able to breath, so whatever arrangement of catchpot you have, it needs to be open to atmosphere. (Though it sounds like you may already be addressing this.) As others have said many Xflows breathe heavily even when there are no significant problems with them. If you find the fumes through the bonnet disturbing it may be worth changing the standard oil filler cap (which is designed to allow the passage of air) for one which is designed to take a piece of tubing. The tube can then be directed below the car, thus avoiding the "smoke from the bonnet louvres" syndrome. I used a Halfords filler cap type HOC606. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7mick Posted October 29, 2006 Author Share Posted October 29, 2006 I think I will try the filler cap. The catchtank is being made up bext week and I will vent this to the back of the car. I am sure there is nothing wrong with my engine as it does not use oil or have blue smoke from the exhaust. Which I am sure it would with worn bores or a broken ring. It would seem almost all these crossflow engines smoke - just wish it was easy to know what is normal for them! Cheers mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdodo Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Hi, The Burton website have tecnical information about breathers/crankcase breathing etc. www.burtonpower.com Under technical support, engine breathing systems Nick in the (1987) 1700 X Flow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murf99 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Hi My catchtank is located as per Burton info sheet Out in it yesterday ( lovely day ) 40 mile trip , when i arrived more like smog than fumes Previous tank mounted down low in chassis maybe this caused problems Have booked 1st trackday in it on 17 Nov have to see what happens Had Crossflows before, not had one that smokes like this one Looks like rebuild over Winter anyway,got left standing by RS6 yesterday John 92 Supersprint ( not so super after all ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyBoy Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 17 Nov - is that the Abingdon MSE track day ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7mick Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 John I would be interested in the result when you strip your engine during the winter months. I am waiting for the new breather tank that i will locate lower than Burtons diagram. I dont know what if any problems this will cause. But if you had other problems I am sure there would be other symptoms. Both of our cars are exceptionally low mileage. I intend using my car daily so it will pile some miles on. I will see what happens before I resort to a strip down as the smog may be normal when running 40 DCOEs?? plus it goes so well otherwise..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevDyson Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Mick, Just to inform you of the same issue I had with my old engine. Exactly the same situation, I continually had oil being thrown out of the breather, and the dip stick. It would be worth doing a compression test, as I found out that when the 1700 xflows were built they used a 1300 piston. With the use of unleaded fuel, assuming yours has an unleaded head, there can be problems with the crowns of the pistons burning and actually melting, causing broken piston rings. I ran mine for 6 months with 2 dodgy pistons. I finally had a new stage 4 engine fitted 2 months ago and it now breathes a lot better, as it has a interrference fitted breather (available from burtons) that feeds a oil catch tank. Food for thought maybe................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murf99 Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 MB 17 Nov Autocar Track Day Bedford Park john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murf99 Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Mick Will let you know what i find when stripped Nev Interesting Points Thanks In comparison 10 years ago i had an all steel dry sumped 1760 with A8 cam and 45 webers ( Dyno,d at 164 bhp ) in a pre lit Westie Dont remember having these problems with that engine, did 11k in it with no probs ! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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