Thanks Nigel, i have a new battery coming in the post which i was thinking i could jump start from using leads then disconnect and check the voltage i'm thinking the 2 batteries i have have suffered the same fate and one has leaked. good to hear i maybe able to fix the alternator with a regulator pack but dont know if anything can be done for the batteries to keep as a spare. So hope to get to the bottom of this in the next couple of days when the battery arrives Mark