wild bill Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 GO TO LAST POST I had a good blat on Saturday, went to put car away and it didn't sound right started it again Sunday AM and it sounds like bottom end is gone so Engine was 1.8 Supersport now has vhpd head and throttlebodies car is rev limited to 7400 so how much is a replacement bottom end and presumably it's worth upgrading as the engine will be out anyway, What sort of damge am i looking at where is the best place to source the bits Edited by - wild bill on 2 Nov 2005 16:34:56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 'Worth upgrading' Stick a Duratec in it 😳 Bill, Have you done any diagnostic on the engine? Compression Test? Oil pressure still good? L7 BDA Supersprint Joy here 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 No not yet so it may not be as bad as it sounds. Having driven it it sounds like engine is running on 3 cylinders however i won't know until i get the thing apart exactly what the prob is. At least it's winter time so i can take time over it and i live bang next door to a garage that does alot of work on Sevens so they can get the thing apart and diagnose exact prob. Mechanic has listened to it this morning and says it sounds like bottom end. Still this is the joy of seven ownership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Surely bottom end damage, and running on 3 cylinders are pretty different sounding problems. Can you explain why you think the bottom end is the problem - are there any other symptoms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 Charlie When car was started on Saturday evening it sounded as if it was running on 3 cylinders Upon start up this morning the car starts with difficulty and then there is an intermittent clank from somewhere inside but the engine is still running. Turned it off very quickly and didn't rev it at all Phil The garage owner has had a listen and thinks it sounds like the bottom end but without getting it into bits i won't know, however if it means a new bottom end (which presumably is a worse case scenario ) i was wondering about cost and is it worth upgrading to a stronger set up to deal with the current horses and any i might add in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Forged pistons? If not broken piston maybe the cause 🙆🏻 Malcolm Edited by - Englishmaninwales on 17 Oct 2005 11:35:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 That was what made me think '3 cylinders firing maybe i'ts just a broken piston' as they are not forged. Engine has been treated well by me (not thrashed from cold oil changes frequently etc etc) but who knows what went before. Never mind it's only a bit of metal and at least i can afford to repair it. Also if i get stuck in it'll get my mechanical knowledge up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Compression check as a first port of call. If nothing conclusive, drain the oil and look for debris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 I expect Oily will be along soon, but IIRC he advised me to limit standard 1800 pistons to 6900rpm and 160BHP Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 The rev limit is the same as it was with the original supersport conversion but i kinda knew it would eventually give up. Rolling road showed 163 bhp but they are usually 10bhp lower than the rollingroad at emerald. Compression test and sump off is first then i'll go from there. Come on then, how much are forged pistons and what else will be worth doing for reliability. I don't need more power. I'm starting to get upgrade excitement but i'd better not tell the wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Standard Rover pistons are for nothing, but a set of piston rings are (IIRC)£140ish.....Forged pistons are £400ish including rings (prices Jan 05 from Oily)......no brainer really. Except I made the wrong choice ☹️ 'coz it was getting difficult to to hide the increasing costs from my wife..... Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 what about putting in a stronger crank as well (not lightened as these are just too rich for me at the mo and car is not for racing only the odd trackday) this must be worth doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Bill, the stonger crankshaft is the expensive bit (eg: a steel one) a standard but lightened/balanced one is not that expensive to do. L7 BDA Supersprint Joy here 😬 Edited by - Manxseven on 17 Oct 2005 12:52:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted October 17, 2005 Support Team Share Posted October 17, 2005 Why not go for a Scholar 1900 conversion? This with a set of forged pistons and your exisiting head and TBs should give you an excellent engine. With BP285H cams you'll be up over 200bhp. The pistons that Scholar supply are Pistal slipper pistons and I am told the engine would need refreshing every 15k-30k miles depending on use. However I understand you can now get Omega pistons in the required 82mm which might be a better bet. Unless you want to rev over 8000rpm, you don't "need" a steel crank or rods but the "single tang" design of rods is supposed to be better. Scholar EVO2 1900 block/liner conversion (exchange) including pistons - £1100 Second hand single tang rods - £100? Balance Engine - £180 Sundries £200 Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Hmmm The pistons that Scholar supply are Pistal slipper pistons and I am told the engine would need refreshing every 15k-30k miles depending on use I would be surprised if the Pistals were Ok for that mileage, I would say more like 7,000 miles for pistons ?. Early days yet though and not that many in use . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 There is a halfway-house between standard and forged pistons - MGTF160s... Still need to get Oily to remind me what the limits are - but as he sold me the bits and it currently runs to 180+bhp and around 7.5k, I hope and trust I'm not overdoing it... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Balance Engine - £180 Woooaah! That's almost exactly twice what the Worcestershire crowd pay... I had my crank, front pulley, flywheel and clutch cover done for about £60ish - V7SLR had this plus his rods (and pistons?) for his 1.9 scholar done for around £90ish at the same place. 'Amusingly', my assembly came out slightly better than his, but then my rods/pistons are a completely unknown quantity in balance terms. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 so when the bottom end comes off what piston set up is going to give me reliability coupled with fast road use, i don't need to rev more than the 7400 max it's at at the mo and i don't want to be refreshing every few thousand miles. I am maechanically sympathetic so i never rant the pants off it until warmed up properly but might as well change bits whilst i'm in the mood and the long winter evenings loom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbutnotslow Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 Mine is soft cut at 7,650 with a max at 7,750. I hit the limiter fairly regularly Yeh Myles but wht you have not said is that it was done on a set of batroom scales!! 😬 😬 😬 Thinks of the old joke about "can I weigh these in the intrests of medical science" Wahey!!!! 😳 Grant 😬 183 BHP of Black and 'Stone Chip' excitement. 😬 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Bill, sorted engine, or is it a rebuild? L7 BDA Supersprint Joy here 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Rob Walker is due to come over and remove the head this week to establish exactly what has caused the prob. No compression in Number 2 and something has mashed the end of the plug ☹️ but until it's off it's all conjecture but i am really missing being on the road still i'm sure it'll be sorted in a couple of weeks or so Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild bill Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 When nthe upgrade was done a shiny new airbox was fitted and a piece of this fell off and was then sucked in to number 2 ☹️ However it would appear that damage is not too bad and i would like to say a big ta to Rob Walker who came over and spent an evening getting the head off to locate the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 So what was the problem that is not so serious but, nevertheless, you have no compression. JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 It'll be bent/broken valves and peppered piston... Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Yep, bent valves and peppered combustion chamber/piston crown. I am very disappointed the fixings for the airbox should not be able to come loose and enter the engine. Bad design and all the fixings had a liberal coating of loctite. IMO the airbox construction is too thin and the box resonates the fixings then fret into the soft ali backplate and then come loose. I shall be modifying my own airbox before it hits the roads again as this just won`t do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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