fuel injecting a motorcycle?

[John Gaines]

I have a moto guzzi 950 which is currently running on carbs. What I would like to investigate is the possibility of fuel injecting it.

Where would be the best areas to look for information on possible donor parts?

Regards John.

[charlie_pank]

I reckon you ought to start by looking at the new Guzzis which are presumably injected.

 

If it were me, I'd be making a list of the things I need - crank sensor, cam sensor, coolant temp sensor etc... then try and find an ECU - you could probably run off an emerald for example... most of the sensors are probably there on the carbed version anyway...

[Tim Lunn]

Hi,

 

As you live in Sussex and are looking for advice on Guzzi's you could do a lot worse than contact these guys, Moto Morino so here is the wesite link :- www.dimarino.co.uk I dont think you will get the kind of advice you are looking for from anyone else in the UK. So give them a call.

[7Nut]

Try contacting AMMO

[ChrisG]

Sounds like a job for a megasquirt setup (google it). There's a chap on the WSCC site called Bill Shurvington who can supply kits and seems to be very clue'd up on it all, so he might be worth emailing

 

Edited by - ChrisG on 4 May 2005 16:50:38

[AMMO]

I've been asked this a lot. Take Charlie's advice and get a fuel injected bike. Much cheaper than trying to convert yours.

 

AMMO

[jerrypike]

don't think fuel injection would make a guzzi pleasant to ride , but understand the pride of ownership

 

jerry

[AMMO]

Guzzis are crap. Very good in the 70's but things have moved on. The Le Mans 1 was a beautiful looking bike (the best Guzzi ever made). It is like riding a plank nowadays. It ain't 1978 no more. Wake up!

 

AMMO

[Roger Ford]

Harsh words from a man who used to make his living from the marque!

 

Have to agree somewhat, though. I loved my Mark II Le Mans, but it was incredibly harsh, tough on the back, and had to be set up perfectly for corners well in advance. And it was horribly unreliable.

 

Still love the feel of the motors though. I'm no longer interested in sports bikes (a decade of bike racing means that going fast on the road seems both pointless and silly) but I'm thinking of getting a California for occasional long-distance commuting, and maybe some summer cruising.

[charlie_pank]

Actually I meant you should have a look at the new Guzzis because they will be fuel injected and you will be able to figure out more about what you need to do, however, I think from a cost/benefit point of view, AMMO is probably right. Then again, I don't think you would be looking to convert a Guzzi to fuel injection if you were concerned about cost or benefit. As far as I can see the only benefit would be a bit of fuel economy, why do you want to bin the carbs?

 

 

 

Edited by - charlie_pank on 6 May 2005 18:12:43

[AMMO]

Roger

 

Harsh words, yes, but I think true. Forget things like Californias, which have their place. Great touring bike. However, Guzzi never bettered the original Mk 1 Cali. Subsequent models got bigger, and even with bigger engines were slugs in comparison to an 850. The first time I rode a Cali injection it was so slow I really worried about not making it during overtaking. We did a kit that sorted that problem and in conjunction with the then importers we sold loads of tuning kits for all the range.

 

Their sports bikes were abysmal. Wrong geometry, bad fuelling (fault of an incompetent, high up engineer who didn't know his arse from his elbow). There were more things wrong with them than right.

 

The whole Guzzi thing has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I offered to do consultancy work for Guzzi and came up with some good prototype work. They borrowed my race bike (they were sponsors) for the Milan show and didn't return it for months. Guzzi blatently stole some ideas that I never got paid for. To add insult to injury a guy I sold some tuning components to got the job at the factory by fobbing the parts off as his own.

 

They are a badly run company. They get bouught out, re-financed and pulled back from the brink. Their bikes are underpoweed and overweight. A Jap 600 4 would run rings around any Guzzi. Shame because they could be made into something very nice if they didn't employ the dregs of the Italian motorecycle industry. People who are incapable of any original thought. Procrastinators that spend too much time out to lunch.

 

When my racer was wheeled into the factory the production line stopped. Workers asked each other "why can't we build bikes like this?" When it was weighed the Guzzi management cound't believe I had shaved over 50 kilos off it (and added another 50 bhp). Never mind, all in the past now.

 

A Guzzi is an expensive un-finished project. You have to throw a lot of money at one to make it any good.

 

And you thought I didn't like Rover. 😬

 

AMMO

[Beelzebub]

Anyone know the history of the Guzzi engine 🤔 ISTR it was it developed to power a small landing craft 😳

 

Serious question BTW 😬

[AMMO]

Wrong. There was a 3x3 half track thing in the 50's that was used by the Alpine Corps that was supposed to have been the basis of the Guzzi V-twin. Speaking to one of the old engineers at Guzzi (forgot his name now, he was at the factory since 1939, knew Carlo Guzzi, who died in 1964. I interviewed him for a book I was writing which got shelved) the only thing in common with that engine was the fact it was a V-Twin. The engine was designed by Giulio Cesare Carcano in the very early 60's and in my opinion was a masterpiece of simplicity. Started off as a 700 cc lump. It got stretched and stretched (I eventually got one out to 1288cc) and power quadrupled. Goes to show what a strong piece of kit it was. The crank dimensions have remained the same throughout the decades.

 

Another fantastic engine was the horizontal single. This started life in 1919 witha bore and stroke of 88x82, four valve head and twin spark plugs. Way ahead of it's time. Guzzi was an airplane mechanic during the First World War so he got to see some pretty trick stuff for it's time.

 

I had this bike removed from its display cabinet in the Guzzi museum and photographed it alongside Dr. John Wittner's Daytona racer using the 1950's wind tunnel as a backdrop. John and I were looking at the bike and I said it was such a shame that people like Carlo Guzzi had to die and not be around to talk to. John turned around and said to me and said "just look at his bike. That is just like having a conversation with him" A very "Californian" moment that, but one that I will cherish.

 

Funny that when I got to do some Work with the Nissan it was also 88x82. Carlo Guzzi. He da man. Shame that the factory declined after his death. By the time De Tommaso took it over in the late 70's it was already going tits up.

 

The racing bikes produced in the 50's were pure art. Lightweight and aerodynamic. A 500 single with a dustbin fairing could beat multi-cylinder bikes. I spoke to Duilio Agostioni who used to race for the factory. He used to go in the wind tunnel and move his body about on the bike to get the best shape for least wind resistance. That what pisses me off about Guzzi, they have a museum full of incredible machines and thay don't go there for inspiration.

 

I once took the Guzzi marketing manager around the NEC motorcycle show and showed him what was right about all the other manufacturers and all the things wrong with Guzzi. By the time I had finished he looked really depressed and resigned shortly afterwards!

 

They also produced a V8 500 GP bike. But that would take far too long 😬

 

AMMO

[AMMO]

Just though of an analogy. Guzzi is like a woman that started life as slim and beautiful and then turned into a big fat mama with a hairy wart on her chin. Who wants to ride one of those?

 

AMMO

[Beelzebub]

AMMO

 

They also produced a V8 500 GP bike. But that would take far too long

 

Ah............... go on AMMO. I'm sipping espresso reading about the V twin & listening to the V8 here

 

Good start to a Sunday morning 😬

[philwaters]

Anyway, good or bad, a lot of people have converted m'bikes to injection using a fuel only ECU here

 

Phil Waters