Nov-07 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Despite encouragement, by word and gesture, from the instructors at Upper Heyford, I found that I was unable to brake effectively 😳 Locking up the front wheels took a lot of physical effort and what felt like a lot of pedal travel. The car (1800 VVC SV) is fitted with the "as supplied" single-pot front calipers and brake pads (Nov.2003). I have checked the pads and discs, and have bled the brakes, twice, since returning from UH, but I am still uncomfortable with the slightly spongy feel of the brakes and the pedal travel; is there anything wrong, or is it a case of "TADTS" 🤔 Would Members recommend a change of pad material, and if so, what change should be made at the rear brakes to maintain balance 🤔 TonyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I would recommend a high ratio pedal, if not already fitted and I would recommend bleeding the brakes (yet again) with exquisite care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 What pad material have you at the moment? For £30-40, it might be worth trying Mintex 1144s - but only at the front. Leave the rears absolutely bog-standard otherwise you'll probably find the rears locking up first... One thing to check (something I noticed on my car this w/e) is that the front pads can actually move freely on the pins - I've not had cause to remove my front pads in the last 6-9 months (until this w/e) and I found them (and the pins) much harder than usual to remove. I'd been experiencing increasingly poor braking (bit softer, less bite) - but this improved somewhat when I put the pads back... Peter - High-ratio pedal, or uprated master-cylinder - and if the former, how do you tell the difference??? Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Tony, when you say you've bled the brakes did you follow the correct sequence and bleed all for corners? Bleeding the std rear calipers is notoriously difficult to get all the air out. Tapping the caliper with a rubber mallet whilst bleeding can help shift some air bubbles. Plenty of stuff in the archives I'm sure. Whilst Peter has suggested a good solution (as always) my experience on my previous seven with std brakes all round says that they should work well enough to lock up and have a pretty solid pedal. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nov-07 Posted May 2, 2005 Author Share Posted May 2, 2005 Yes, I was brought up with vintage cars and spent many happy hours bleeding brakes, so I know the routine 😬 Since the car was built I have got only very few small bubbles out of the rear calipers, none from the front. It may simply be that old age has rendered me too feeble to apply adequate braking pressure ☹️ I did go to the gym and spent several minutes on the leg-muscle machine before I realised that I was exercising the wrong leg 😳 Do Caterham do aeroscreens for Zimmer frames 🤔 TonyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous_bryan Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I am having problems getting my car through SVA at the moment on a brake issue. The Rears are locking up first and the pedal is a little spongy. I have bled the brakes numerous times and got through a hell of a lot of fluid....100% sure there is no air now though. CC have suggested Mintex pads for the front and they are sending me some, should be able to try them out at the weekend to get the fronts locking first before the rears, the correct performance to passing the SVA! I has it down to a faulty master cylinder as the fluid seemed to be going back into the reservior rather than in the pipes, but apparantly new cars are "appalling on braking for a while!" Fingers crossed on the new pads solving the problem. Building the Dream 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 It certainly *used* to be a TADTS regarding the rears locking before the fronts on newly-built cars and quite common for uprated pads to be needed to get through SVA... ...it's been quiet for a while. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Bryan Have you checked that you don't have the uprated pads in the rear brakes? My kit had these pre-fitted on delivery and the 'normal' pads were in a box. IIRC, the uprated pads have a blue paint blob on them. This only applies if you have the standard bfronts rakes, not the uprated ones by the way. Guy See some pictures of the build here. 5000 miles completed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nov-07 Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 Bryan, As well as checking that you have replaced the read brake pads, as described in the build manual (assuming that you have the standard front brakes), you should de-grease the discs. I was told that they are "pickled" in a preservative when new. I cleaned them three times when my car was built before I had enough braking effect to dare to drive to Dartford for the PBC/SVA. There is something odd about my braking system, despite careful bleeding: the pedal does not "pump up" on repeated application TonyK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Tony the pedal does not "pump up" on repeated application That's how it's meant to be and is not odd at all. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous_bryan Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I have checked the rear pads, they are NOT the uprated pads as there is no flash of blue on them. I did this under advise from CC technical. New front pads are at home so will test them tonight. Interesting point on the de-greasing the disks.....will do a bit of that too. Building the Dream 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Major improvement to the front brakes is to fit four-pot calipers. There have been many debates over which version (James Whiting's Alcon vs Caterham's AP vs Wilwood etc). Personally I went for the APs and the braking is much better. I can lock the fronts without having to break my toes on the pedal.... Low tech luddite - xflow and proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Bryan I definitely agree with TonyK about degreasing the disks - I just used Gunk and it got all the 'shipping oil' off no problem. Guy See some pictures of the build here. 5000 miles completed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I've got Mintex pads on the front and have no problem locking up whatsoever, if you're finding it hard work then something's definitely not right. Perhaps try an ezibleed and take the rear calipers off so that you can hold them with the nipple uppermost There's been a lot of talk on here over the years about how caterham brakes are wooden and don't stop effectively etc... but I have never had a problem myself and never cease to be amazed at how quickly you can shave off speed. If you do use the Mintex pads, bear in mind that they are a little bit binary until they've warmed up a bit. Bikers sometimes use syringes to fill their brake lines when they are having trouble with air bubbles, perhaps it might be worth a try in your case? Did anyone else have a go in your car, or did you have a go in anyone else's - this would help to pin down whether or not it's normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Charlie, Have you changed Kermit's pads since you took over caring for him? If not then you've got Mintex 1155's all round. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 As others have said the Mintex 1144's front and std pads at the back works well. I've run this for a while now and have plenty of stopping power with a standard brake set up. It really is important that the brakes are fully bled and that you have minimised the free travel on the brakes as well. MikeW Mega Grad Race No 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nov-07 Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 Charlie, It's the front brakes that I cannot easily lock up. With a dual system, as on the Caterham, I should surely be able to get full pressure at the front, even if there was air in the rear calipers. I had a look into the pedal box today and tried adjusting the pedal height and travel - but a short blat did not indicate any change ☹️ It was fun though 😬 I would like to try another car - perhaps the next time we have a breakfast blat someone will let me loose in their hard-braking pride and joy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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