Emerald start up problems

[Grim Reaper]

Any help at all would be very much appreciated here...

I have been trying for the last 8 hours to get the engine to start with an Emerald M3DK.

I can get an RPM reading (on live adjustments page)on the starter button with the pickup format (ECU setup) set to 36-2 and Inductive but it is jumping about.(0-200-0-300 etc)

Apparently the cure is to use another pickup setting (should give a steady RPM reading) but all the others give a Zero RPM reading on the starter.

The pickup seems OK,I can get pulses on a multimeter when attached.

The engine has not yet fired,nor even had a go at running by itself.

Fuel is getting to rail and injectors are working (removed rail with injectors attached and can get them all to squirt onto blue roll OK)though I have had to swap the driver lead from pin 24 to pin 1 to get injectors 1&4 to fire.

I am running a Stack dash and the tacho source for that is teed off ignition coil 1..is this right? I have a constant 12V across coil1 switched earth (pin 25) and +12v feed (from MFU/pin 28 on ECU),nothing across coil2 (pin 5)and +12V feed ( all measurements made when ignition is on)

I am getting desparate..Post build check that was booked for this morning (its now 1am) is out of the question and SVA is booked for Monday 12th at 8am.

Calls/emails gladly taken 01642 762279/david.2.pratt@bt.com.

Will be calling Karl at Emerald to see if I'm not doing/doing something obvious/wrong but I have taken the loom apart again to check connections and all appears OK (apart from the tacho driver to the stack (could be giving a constant earth)

The Stack tacho needle vibrates downwards on IGN turn on but has not moved upwards as yet.

+12V feed for the ECU (pin 28) comes from tee on MFU injector +12V feed rather than coil feed.

Flywheel pickup earth (?) not connected to any others,same for Lambda sensor,though screen on leads are connected to ECU earth.

Anybody else using an Emerald with a Stack and had similar problems??

Could it be wires the wrong way round on another sensor? ECU inputs and Stack inputs are all separate,no cross conns or common earths on the engine loom....come morning I'll try some LEDS on the coil inputs and injector inputs to ensure signals are getting to the right places.

Help!

[SLR No.77]

If you're going for the SVA then it must be a new vehicle - then why the 36-2 pick up pattern - is it a 1400 flywheel? If so, that's fine.

But if you've got an 1600 / 1800 flywheel then it has to be the 36-4 pattern. If this is the case you'll never get it started until you change it.

 

Stu.

[Peter Carmichael]

Agree that the tooth pattern should be the 36-4. The Emerald also has an output pin for a tacho which should be used in preference to the coil output - the reason for this is that the Stack triggers on the rising edge of a square wave signal and this moves around quite a lot as the Emerald has an internal algorithm for saving energy by not charging the coil for very long periods - with a Stack dash you will get spurious readings as you cross 4000rpm (at least that's how it used to be).

 

First step is to get you running...

[Grim Reaper]

I can only get an RPM reading on the Live Adjustments screen if the ECU is set to the 36-2 pattern.

When I change it to 36-4 the reading stays at Zero!

I have changed the stack input to the tacho output from pin 12,I now get a slight rise when I put a DVM across coil 2 wire (from pin 5) and the 12V supply at the coil plug (not seeing much voltage across these points though)

there is still 12V across coil 1 wire (from pin 25) and 12V supply at the coil plug.

I have noticed on the ECU Diagnostic screen there are 2 fault codes listed...Status 002 Fault code 200.

Any ideas?

I have tried to call Emerald and left a message on answering machine but noi reply as yet.

 

[mav]

GR,

 

Any news on the fault codes?

[Grim Reaper]

Mav,

Karl/Dave at Emerald said to ignore them,they are a feature for the future.

I have got the engine running!! Don't know what we did to get it there but a combination of changing crank sender (for a £20 cheaper one) swapping wires over and changing ECU setup and back again did the trick.

The strangest thing was that we could get a reading on the RPM readout with no,1,2,and 3 plugs in place,but if all four were in it stayed at zero.

If we took either plugs 2 or 3 out it got a reading but if the plugs from 1 or 4 were removed it didn't

When I changed from Rover2 to Rover3, I saw a flicker of RPM when I let go of the starter button,in previous attempts this had been due to the crank sensor wires being reversed,so I reset to Rover2 and reversed the wires and Hey Presto! it started to chug.

I have filed down the sensor casing somewhat in order to move it closer to the QED flywheel teeth and ground the stubs of the teeth I had removed flush with the surrounding metal to ensure it wasn't picking up what was left from the end of the sensor.

Now I need help with the map to get it running so I can get to a post build check this afternoon (they said they would open up especially for me!)and to the SVA on Monday morning.

Would anyone mind if I called them for a mapping session over the phone this morning?

[mav]

Thanks for the info. I'm having trouble with my map too, and am completely new to all of this side of the engine game. Hope PBC and SVA go ok. I think i saw your head at DVA whilst i was down there in March.

 

Good luck.

 

Regards,

 

Martin

[Grim Reaper]

Well, thanks to all those involved in trying to get the Reapermobile moving.

It would seem that I have a problem (after the sender wires and coil earths) with fuel pressure.

I have had to scale up by between 30 and 40 percent all of the injection figures in order to get the engine to be driveable,and even then it is tending towards lean on the lambda sensor gauge so I think it is still running a little too lean for it's own good. Seems to be a lot of heat being generated.

The only things that could be wrong are FPR faulty,Fuel pump faulty or fuel pump in the wrong way up (I don't know if this is either possible or if it would have an effect on its running but I have had it out in order to paint and corrosion proof the tank and I suppose I could have put it back in the wrong way (if anyone can take a look at theirs and see if the hose comes out near the top front side of the tank,and the hose doesn't go through the metal lugs that would be a help))

Watch this space for more info....

[Peter Carmichael]

Hi Dave. Sorry you've been having so many problems. Just worth reiterating that "tending towards lean" is possibly misleading. The lambda sensor is not sensitive enough to tell you any detail about "how lean" the engine is. If you have *ANY* lights on the bar graph the engine is running at lambda or above.

 

The Emerald software bar graph is misleading, but think of it as a single light rather than a bar graph and you will be reading it correctly.

 

You would probably notice leanness with astumble and misfire.

 

If the engine is that fuel hungry it might be worth rechecking the cam timing unless you are 100% certain you have it right.

[Grim Reaper]

Swapped the FPR out for another and the problem remains.

As I do not have easy access to a fuel pressure gauge I have removed the tank in order to check the fuel feed to the pump,see "Befor I take the fuel tank out" here for details on this operation.