EFA Posted December 27, 2000 Share Posted December 27, 2000 Alex The trick to tuning the Vauxhall is induction. This is why SBD claim 208bhp from the tapered Jenve7y Dynamics TB's they sell. You will get 208Bhp from this set up if your engine is in perfect condition , blueprinted and with the perfect exhaust system and a vacuum dry sump.(The crank passing through surplus oil loses 5bhp at least! To fit these to a Caterham Spec Vaux would give only around 190 - 200 in my estimate. My car was originally a Swindon 235 supplied by Caterham (That bit is very important) Mine could not be got to produce over 200 bhp when dyno'ed as it was over ported, undervalved and had huge carbs totally inappropraite to the cams. Big holes in the torque curve as well. The best way to improve on your engine is to go for the Jenvey throttle bodies and a set of the cams Swindon fit in the 235 engine they supplied to Caterham. If you get your head ported to Swindon 235 spec,but keep the std valves the better throttle bodies will give you 240 -250bhp poss even more. This will also get you up to 180 - 190 lb/ft of torque. An R500 only has about 145 and even Perfect Pete has only 165lb/ft The other real important thing with the VX is to make sure you upgrade the bottom end. Dry sump and steel rods are essential if you want it to stay together. Also the Calibra Turbo crank is stronger if you stick with a cast crank. I have one of these somewhere if you want one, but I can't remember how to identify it from a normal 16v crank! So to do this you are looking at: TB's £800 Head machining £800 Rods and rod bolts £500 Dry Sump £2000 if you dont already have.... Plus lots of time in Rogers garage....... I have a fairly close map for this spec engine assuming you'll get ot rolling road tuned (map is for MBE 912/956 but you can get this changed to binary and ported to a DTA map format ) This config isn't a million miles from my spec except I have a stroked steel crank and bigger valves. I claim 281bhp on the back of CCC's measurements, but I reckon its certainly over 270. Its also not gone bang in 10,000 miles and has only had inspection services in this time except a new set of bronze guides as it ws beginning to smoke slightly. As for me I'm taking the cheque book to the NEC in January. I'm looking for a new bottom end of real touring car spec. Should get the power over 300 horse and max rpm to 10,000. That'll keep the R500 boys quiet especially when you consider I'm having 19 kilo's removed from the block and crank assy. K-Series advantage = 0 Above all Alex stick with the Vauxhall - its a better engine, stonger and can be made just as light and has loads more torque. Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 27, 2000 Share Posted December 27, 2000 So Arnie, will we see you at Curboro in May? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted December 27, 2000 Share Posted December 27, 2000 FA, will we see you competing at Curborough question.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted December 27, 2000 Share Posted December 27, 2000 Arnie Have you had experience of the sbd throttle bodies on an other wise standard engine? The reason I find it hard to believe the 208 bhp output is that it is nearly 30 bhp more than an engine on 45 dellortos or dcoe All the other throttle body kits from other suppliers claim similar power to a carb setup (within a few bhp). It seems exagerated to say the least. The choke sizes are very similar to either a carb setup or other throttle bodies. The reason for asking is that I have looked into throttle bodies instead of carbs and so far the only advantages I can see are better throttle response and a smoother power band etc I find it hard to spend nearly £1800 on this for a small gain in power instead of head work cams etc etc Thamks in advance James cool.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted December 28, 2000 Author Share Posted December 28, 2000 I really don't think injecting a standard engine is the way to go. That sort of money, you could go for a QED Q450 kit and keep the carbs and almost definitely get 210BHP+ if built and jetted properly. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Alex, Mike Culmer bought a supposedly fully mapped plu & play QED 450 kit. The engine would not runm on the maps supplied and they then emailed him a bunch of "guessed" maps, which made it run just about but it was a DOG! The 450 kit cams are a race cam like the JPE cams, and they were very very peaky. He has now got a Piper profile which is allegedly a copy of the Swindon 235's. James, As I wrote before, the correct exhaust can give you probably 20bhp over the Caterham system, which has short unequal length primaries and is too small bore at the coleector for over 175bhp. A vacuum dry sump system, (The Caterham system is not vacuum) will reduce crank drag in the crankcase and releive another 5bhp min. It all adds up, but the BIG difference the TB's give AND ONLT TAPER BODIES DO THIS is that they increase the induction velocity, improving torque and driveability hugely. A pair of 45mm dia choke TB's cannot do this. The inlet tracks, and the angle of these relative to the head again releases much power. I am no fan of SBD, I sued him when he blew up my engine, but the Jenvey product he sells really does work. Incidently Mike Culemers std Vaux which has only Piper 235 cams and Jenvey bodies did 235bhp on the rollers estrimated crank BHP. It does go like a 235 bhp car as well. Oh the TB's also enhance economy greatly if you use your car for high speed touring (driving to track days etc.) My car does 25mpg driven sensibly (like 1/2 throttle) You wont get this from a carb engine!!! (Even a 175 bhp one) AW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Arnie, What does it take to remove 19kg from your block and crank are you talking about an alloy block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Stuart, The crank is a touring car item with much smaller journals, and all unnecessary webs and brackets are machined off the block. With an alloy block you could lose even more weight, but sadly the alloy VX block is a lemon. AW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Arnie Thanks for the advise. Who do you recommend for the exhaust? An off the shelf system or a one off. Is the ideal type equal length downpipes and a 4-2-1 collector box type setup? What did sbd do to your engine? My vx on carbs (I am embarassed to admit) averages approx 30 mpg. Maybe I drive too slowly! It has probably been covered before but does anyone know the approx weights of the 2.0 vx and the k-series? Are the ancillaries much different? On some Ford engines diesel con rods are used because they are stronger. Is this possible on the vx? Does anyone know the differences between the 2.0 8v and 16v engine blocks? Thanks in advance James Edited by - James on 28 Dec 2000 23:54:22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 James I used Hayward & Scott in Basildon for my manifold, which was designed on the dyno. Playing with the lengths and using a 4-2-1 config improved the torque massively with only a tiny compromise in power loss -2bhp. Its 31" primaries, 15" secondaries, 8deg collectors with 1 7/8" primaries, 2 1/4 secondaries and a 3" outlet. The primaries run a straight s possible and there a no tight bends withing 15" of the exhaust valves. Works very well! SBD fitted a SBD designed dry sump system. Not only did the pump mount prise the front cover of the engine away from the block causing a leak the very simple mechnic (Dick someone) could not figure out, but it also twisted the whole oil pump (a PAce modulear pump) so the oil contained suspended aluminium dust which killed the bearings on the first hard use. Result - a Carello rod out of the side of the block, destroyed crank, bent valves and a repair cost of £6000. I dont know the VX /K weights, but there is about a 30kgs difference undressed. The VX ancilleries are actually lighter, although there is not much in it. If you are getting 30mpg, you are not using the accelerator pumps (read - driving like a girl!) Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Arnie Sorry to hear about your engine.Hope they paid for it. When you get your crank does this mean you are single handedly putting an end to the over weight vx myth! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Yes, and with my new Christmas present the driver may also no longer be overweight as well........ Sadly one of Steven Broughtons investors also had a mate who was a barrister, hence the cost of fighting the case rose above the value of the claim. I would not have been second to a lawyer in the winnings stakes.... AW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Rexia Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 FA, Driving like a girl ??????????????? Touch of sex discrimination there methinks!! Perhaps he just doesn't drive like a maniac on the roads, there's NOTHING clever in that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Anna Are you saying that anybody not achieving 30mpg drives like a maniac??? I think you might just get lynched for that one....... Perhaps you should go to www.prescott.com/bastard.htm for more details..... AW Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorAtle Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 James' odometer is just overreading a tad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Arnie, thanks for not finding sleep for the next few days. I´ve got also a SBD dry-sump-system fitted to my 16V, could not find any problems yet but I´m still running it in so not sure yet. How did you recognize the oil-pump-problem (besides the small hole in the engine stuffed up with a Carillo-rod.)? Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Rexia Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 FA - no I'm not, but - "Drives like a girl"question.gifquestion.gifquestion.gifquestion.gifquestion.gifquestion.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Marius I found it.....H'mmmm "expensive" No clues until itv went bang. Since then SBD have had 5 years to practice on their customers cars..... AW Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Anna Girls drive slower than boys. I notice that all events I've ever seen don't have a 'Fastest Gent' trophy..... but then perhaps we are all MCP's and not Gents...... Your call....... Arnie Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Rexia Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 FA - Can't be bothered to argue - life's too short and I'm in a good mood and don't want to change it! I don't think I've ever seen you on track anywhere, do you do track days or sprints & hillclimbs? wink.gif) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Ooooooo..... Anna, were you not present at my great upside down driving day in 1994?? Have been on track since, but nothing as often as I'd like.... AW Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip Edited by - fast arnie on 29 Dec 2000 16:00:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Rexia Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Just realised I hadn't seen you anywhere on track that's all. I didn't know about that sorry, hope it wasn't too serious or traumatic, wonder why I didn't hear about it. Where was it then and why were you driving upside down - was that a prototype donut that ended up as an apple turnover? smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Thats why the club is of limited liability and has the protection of the MSA now. Luckily I walked (drove actually) away.... Arnie Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 wink.gif Edited by - James on 30 Dec 2000 09:44:59 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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