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Photo request Caterham 6 point harness

CtrMint

By CtrMint
in TechTalk

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andy_harries

andy_harries

Posted
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Posted

Are you after a pic of the straps bolted underneath the seat and then coming up through the seat hole?  I have six point harness and can take some pics

ChrisC

ChrisC

Posted
Posted

They are the race belts, so any 2020 academy cars will have them (well at least one).  As for the fitting, the new manual covers that.   Does the carbon seats have a hole for the 6 point harness? 

CtrMint

CtrMint

Posted
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Posted

Hi, 

Thanks for the responses. 

I'd just like to see how it fits around the seat, so a photo fitted with buckle connected but lifted up would be great, I'm just trying to get a better grasp of what they are like in the car with the seats and panel sides.  I don't want them to become a complete pig during road use.

HANS compatibility is one of the reasons for the interest, the 4 point belts certain feel too wide of a HANS device.   Having hit a bank + tree at around 80mph in a rally car and stopped dead, I can appreciate the benefits of the HANS device in a Seven.  

Thanks

Mark

Englishmaninwales

Englishmaninwales

Posted
Posted

I know this is not what you're asking for, but IMO the Caterham branded Luke 6 point doesn't fit a HANS at all well (shoulder straps are too wide). I ditched mine for a Caterham supplied Schroth 6 point with narrow shoulder straps, which is a much better fit with HANS.

Malcolm

CtrMint

CtrMint

Posted
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Posted

Guys, I kind of knew that, that's why I'm looking at the 6 point, I mentioned it in my post above.  I just want to see how awkward they are in the Seven.  The 620 will still spend 90% of its life on the road so needs to maintain ease of use. 

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andy_harries

andy_harries

Posted
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Posted

From the further posts I assume you don't have Tillets so pics of my set up wouldn't be helpful?

In case they are, I;ve put links to them below. The two lower straps come through the bottom hole in the seat and they're pretty comfortable really.  I don't tend to use them on the road as it takes longer to get in and out, but always on the track.  Never had an issue (once I got the straps adjusted to the right positions).

https://i.imgur.com/XEpFi7L.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9KWjBpg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/I0h1uyW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/d3H9LkW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lySxGg7.jpg

If they do happen to be useful but you want different angles then let me know. I'm working from home on a very boring presentation and happy for any excuse to get into the garage for a break!

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Golf Juliet Tango

Golf Juliet Tango

Posted
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Posted

I just want to see how awkward they are in the Seven.

Six point are no more awkward that four (I'm not quite sure why they should be). Harnesses are, naturally, much more secure than inertia reels lap and diagonal.  For the Seven I would not consider anything except harnesses.

CtrMint

CtrMint

Posted
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Posted

Thanks for the images peeps.  Most helpful.

I've given it a lot of thought and decided on the additional strap for the standard harness just for now.  I'm not sure when the 620R will see a track thanks to the current worsening of Covid.  Plus road use of a HANS harness might be uncomfortable and damaging during an impact given the narrower shoulder straps. 

thanks again all

BobM

BobM

Posted
Posted

I'd stick with the standard harnesses. You've clearly never used a HANS, otherwise you wouldn't contemplate using one on the road *wink* They seriously restrict rotation of your head so you'd have great difficulty at junctions, especially if you have one with an acute angle.

There are other issues. As you've already identified, you need a narrow harness to fit properly on the HANS and my understanding is that the HANS specific harnesses aren't approved for use without a HANS (that might only be in the racing context of course). Also you need quite specific placing of the shoulder strap mount points to give the correct angle for the straps to sit on and secure the HANS, I think they need to be slightly closer together than you'd normally have just for a 4 point harness, the straps need to converge slightly as they pass behind the device.

I share your concerns about wearing harnesses without a HANS, an inertia reel belt allows your torso to flex forwards in an impact, thus avoiding putting too much stress on your neck. Harnesses however don't and this is a risk. The risk is higher wearing a helmet as it adds to the mass of your head. Good discussion of the issues

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CtrMint

CtrMint

Posted
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Posted

I've used HANS plenty rallying, hate the dam thing.  As the co-driver having to get out and run up the road for your time its a pig!  Then get back in and make sure it's right, especially if you're going in the stage at 30secs, it always causes panic and distraction.  Of course I wouldn't consider using a HANS on the road, not even sure it would be legal anyway.

At the same time I know I can't get the 4 point to sit tight enough without the center lifting.  It never feels like the harness in the rally car.   I've gone with the 5 point upgrade to the 4 point, and will make sure it's fitted right.  I might have to consider a second 6 point harness for trackdays and swap pre-event.  I think I mentioned before, I've been involved in a big shunt rallying, 80 mph passenger side into a tree, the HANS device did it's job there.  I'll defo want it on a trackday.

Drumster

Drumster

Posted
Posted

I've used a Simpson Hybrid device for sprinting for some years and have had no issues with 3" shoulder straps, but the harness points have been moved to a more suitable position.

BobM

BobM

Posted
Posted

Yes, apologies, my oversight regards your rallying experience.

Completely agree with you on the 4 vs 6 point harness, never really happy with 4 point. I suspect the way forward is a HANS compatible 6 point, the 2 inch part of the straps is entirely adequate for road use and with the right harness you could simply not bother with the crotch straps for 'normal' driving. Might need to stick the 4 point back in for MOT though.

BobM

BobM

Posted
Posted

I did actually get my last race car through IVA with 6 point harnesses, but they were 'normal' 3" straps, not the HANS version.

brianjhall31

brianjhall31

Posted
Posted

These 2 documents provide lots of good info about positioning and use of 4 and 6 point harness.   Having installed the extra belts from Caterham to modify my car to a "6 Point" (using all the mounting points installed as standard on the chassis) I can say that they are only really capable (and comfortable!) if you have Tillet or similar race shell type seats fitted.  The 2 lower belts for the Caterham supplied 6 point have to route over the top of the standard (leather) seat cushion which does not achieve anywhere near the vertical tension intended for correct 6 point operation integrity.  Regarding HANS I am also aware that some owners have found that their cars existing mounting points for the 2 shoulder straps do not comply with the angle and distance measurement regulations and have been obliged to modify the top chassis tubes (Arch Motors can do this)

A quick view of the results in the Schroth document between wearing or not wearing a HANS in a Caterham type car involved in a front end impact is quite conclusive!

As with all Safety Devices there have been lots of tests performed to ensure the best advice can be given on the equipment and installation.  Given the intent of the devices, and the consequences involved, compliance is a must.

seat-belt-fitting-information-2012_0.pdf BlueBook2020155-195-Safety-K.pdf   

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