Battery or short?

[Geoff Brown]

The Powerlite PS 20 retails at over £200 ! That = THREE Banners from Tanya including P&P = more than ten years of Banners at my projected usage.

 

 

[7 wonders of the world]

Li-ion circa £130 and only 1.1Kg thats save at least 6kg over the Banner......

[7 wonders of the world]

Battery:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Lithium-Ion-Battery-JMT-HJTX20H-FP-SWIQ/184128382978?epid=2010717415&hash=item2adee82802:g:fB8AAOSwR-9eIEEn

Charger:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOCO-Genius-G1100UK-6v-12v-1-1A-Smart-Battery-Charger/264583886404?epid=17017009621&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d9a6db644:g:iewAAOSw3DteCyK3&enc=AQAEAAACQBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qXTIFNXORB3f954iX5SOVTOs9gwhVmfmdI60HL9RIUVa%2FgjHCP7Tmg7FXm2GP2T061vyeokhtoOeq0sD7dE%2Bbbtu5GOoD8nyhcVmyn2jESUUR7bkTixgt%2Bbj1ZUgPQhvMbNPqXmp5SM8aQJceTos%2BsaLTudaF%2FjlsHr7yYVtrgI9rRX4gcGEpbaj8z4Z0GdPi7pKhGnfEPUqXzjnnm4pQqtj70QpXqMdMHX%2FepcTCOQPwDVJ1dm3kSwUErf9h6BEXK8yLkJy5EzeiGdPKddoe5YGt%2FfRVDBzQW0anxih317VbyUttvuSGvsMAFNneUICt5fKgQvbR8akxw8SktCODQCfEcIn9ju9trCXd3KCAMMHX7e4%2BXQ9or5f7A5tGuiEXW%2FiVjV9y8inHoUmFQd2AD560osIAnfgTIOhKuRQv84UUvgsJ02enPFtqfxNgTFciyibylN9lS6RTzyKMDhbuC0OIWp7dCcNl96G5dTYcvSwE76Kc0gv%2BJzkyGHBRlXIGYudvRQiXyBLiAAKCH6eiDyw8Bptx5x3L2q5eWcIztnJdjPEMdQ20767Q6zLgeFgDkq7LhS9eFSRi3wFXh0BOzx%2FDX7Cp1jbWUn2ZBoPuncILoDjycYxTcBolODpd5wg2zxODEH45V0UecT5vjbprL0ySPfd6aMR0oP%2FLU97P7C1YQHMWqBlr6EJ04xmCIGBcOZqofm7B2k9HGJolgParfOErWuZA0LllH09bEH36d6aA%3D%3D&checksum=26458388640417fc3d7cf06847d8a20a69af7c6eb746&enc=AQAEAAACQBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qXTIFNXORB3f954iX5SOVTOs9gwhVmfmdI60HL9RIUVa%2FgjHCP7Tmg7FXm2GP2T061vyeokhtoOeq0sD7dE%2Bbbtu5GOoD8nyhcVmyn2jESUUR7bkTixgt%2Bbj1ZUgPQhvMbNPqXmp5SM8aQJceTos%2BsaLTudaF%2FjlsHr7yYVtrgI9rRX4gcGEpbaj8z4Z0GdPi7pKhGnfEPUqXzjnnm4pQqtj70QpXqMdMHX%2FepcTCOQPwDVJ1dm3kSwUErf9h6BEXK8yLkJy5EzeiGdPKddoe5YGt%2FfRVDBzQW0anxih317VbyUttvuSGvsMAFNneUICt5fKgQvbR8akxw8SktCODQCfEcIn9ju9trCXd3KCAMMHX7e4%2BXQ9or5f7A5tGuiEXW%2FiVjV9y8inHoUmFQd2AD560osIAnfgTIOhKuRQv84UUvgsJ02enPFtqfxNgTFciyibylN9lS6RTzyKMDhbuC0OIWp7dCcNl96G5dTYcvSwE76Kc0gv%2BJzkyGHBRlXIGYudvRQiXyBLiAAKCH6eiDyw8Bptx5x3L2q5eWcIztnJdjPEMdQ20767Q6zLgeFgDkq7LhS9eFSRi3wFXh0BOzx%2FDX7Cp1jbWUn2ZBoPuncILoDjycYxTcBolODpd5wg2zxODEH45V0UecT5vjbprL0ySPfd6aMR0oP%2FLU97P7C1YQHMWqBlr6EJ04xmCIGBcOZqofm7B2k9HGJolgParfOErWuZA0LllH09bEH36d6aA%3D%3D&checksum=26458388640417fc3d7cf06847d8a20a69af7c6eb746

Wow thats some link !!

[StevehS3]

Is 7Ah capacity enough? The Banner is 30 Ah.

[aerobod - near CYYC]

I found even the Banner is problematic when starting a Duratec in sub-zero temperatures (flattened my original one several times and needed a jump start on early spring mornings here in Canada). I put in a 32Ah Yuasa AGM battery which is similar in size and weight to the Banner, but less voltage drop, with a higher 500 CCA compared with 300 on the Banner. Typically this battery is used for starting the largest capacity motorcycles such as Harleys, or snowmobiles in -30C conditions.

[7 wonders of the world]

Copied from the tinterweb

 

Cold Cranking Amps and Pulse Cranking Amps?

CCA stands for Cold Cranking Amps. The higher the number the bigger the kick your battery can give your starter motor. It is the maximum current a lead-acid chemistry battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C) for 30 seconds while maintaining a minimum voltage of at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt lead acid battery). IThis is the most widely used cranking measurement for comparison purposes of lead acid batteries. However lithium batteries generally stop working before the voltage drops to 7.2V so measuring the CCA of a lithium battery is not practical although some vendors do provide a theoretical 'equivalent' CCA as a comparitive indication. The problem is that different vendors derive their theoretical CCA ratings using different measurements and calculations ....and sometimes the marketing departments have influence! So the CCA ratings from different lithium battery manufacturers may not be directly comparable. Also for engine starting purposes, a 30 second discharge measurement is irrelevant. Normally we want an engine to start in the first 10 seconds of cranking!

PCA stand for Pulse Cranking Amps. Again the higher the number the bigger the kick your battery can give your starter motor. PCA's are usually measured over a short duration (typically between 3 and 10 seconds). Because the pulse time is comparable to the time it actually takes to start a bike, a PCA rating is a better measurement of the abiity of a battery to start your vehicle. The problem is some vendors use a PCA pulse of just 3 seconds while other vendors use a PCA pulse of 10 seconds. A PCA of 200 over 10 seconds indicates a  lot more power than a PCA of 200 over 3 seconds. So the PCA ratings from different lithium battery vendors may not be directly comparable.

Ultrabatt batteries  are rated at 10 second Pulse Cranking Amps (PCA)

Your supplier should be able to give you the best advice on what size battery you need for you bike.

What else do I need to know about caring for your Ultrabatt battery?

Not a lot actually but the following should be useful and perhaps even interesting information.

Starting your bike in very cold weather?

Each time your starter motor draws current throught the battery it warms up the cells in the battery slightly. Remember a lithium battery's internal resistance decreases with temperature. This is why on a cold morning on the third or fourth attempt at starting your bike the battery will actually spin the starter motor faster than the first attempt. If a bike with a lithium battery doesn’t spin your engine over quickly enough to start the bike on the first attempt wait a minimum 5 seconds to allow any temperature increase to spread through the cells and then thumb the starter again.

Amp Hours?

Is a measure of the storage capacity of a battery or how much charge it can hold. It is of little importance unless you operate the electrics of your bike while the engine is not running and charging the battery on your bike. If your motorcycle has current draw when the bike is not being ridden due to being fitted with an immobilizer system, clock, electronic dash, or other accessories that continues to consume your batteries capacity when the key is turned off then you may need to select a battery with a higher amp hour storage capacity or alternatively just connect the cable from the negative lead of your battery.
 

So in summary is a modern lithium battery or good old lead acid battery best for you?

For racers with a good budget the weight savings (Up to 4kg) make ltihium batteries a done deal. How else do you loose 4 kgs for such a small price premium?...you can't.

Yes Lithium batteries are more reliable by a factor of several times. (Although it's very early days yet our user poll shows that around 14% of lead batteries fail in the first two years and 25% have failed by the end of the third year. If that was the failure rate of a home appliance somebody would be getting nailed on Campbell Live! or having to answer some very hard questions from the Ministry of Consumer Affairs...perhaps they should be.

Even lithium batteries without an inbuilt BMS have failure rates well under 1/3 of lead acid battery failure rates.

Because a lithium battery has very low self discharge rate most customers never need to purchase a battery charger and this might be another cost benefit to owning a lithium battery. (Only 1 in 10 of our Ultrabatt customers every purchases a battery charger from us)

Unlike lead acid batteries, lithium batteries do not include sulfuric acid and do not produce explosive hydrogen gas.

Ultrabatt lithium batteries have an inbuilt replaceable safety fuse that will blow in the event you have a short circuit on your bike. ($2 fuse replaced via access hatch under sticker).

When you consider that most people change bikes every three years then the very high failure rates (25% within three years) of lead acid batteries becomes more acceptable (because the battery becomes someone else problem).

Unless you can swap your lithium battery from one bike to another, you could lose on the deal when the next owner gets your reliable long life lithium battery and you may get a bike with an old lead acid battery.

[Geoff Brown]

£107 = TWO Banners with P&P = more than six years with my projected usage.

Call me tight (OK I am tight) but I will stick with Banners for the time being.

[CtrMint]

Not sure why to be honest, I could speculate.  The couriers always charge more.  I guess space is a premium on the ferry etc.  What's really annoying is the amount of stuff on Amazon you simply can't get delivered.  No quite the thread topic, but you did ask.

of course the most notable challenge was the delivery of my Seven.  A topic which caused so much grief, all water under the bridge now.

[Jonathan Kay]

There's a bridge?

:-)

Jonathan

[StevehS3]

Very drole M. Kay :)

[CtrMint]

I wish there was a bridge, better a yet a tunnel!   Life would be easier.  Tunnel runs in a Seven 

Started her up this afternoon, she fire immediately, sharp and fresh.  Went for a drive, got back home and intentionally stopped and started the car a couple of times, she fired immediately again without issue.  Battery seems absolutely fine.  Phew.  

[Jonathan Kay]

:-)

Good time to run those three voltage checks, so that you can easily spot deterioration.

Jonathan

[CtrMint]

Well it's back on the  conditioner, and it was getting cold so I went in for a brew.  

[Geoff Brown]

With a Banner, winter & longish periods between start ups there is a need for a great deal of TLC.

Disconnect the negative terminal or use a racing shut off switch as the immobiliser will cause quick drain down in low or sub zero temperatures. Regularly trickle charge (I use a CTEK) & monitor electrolyte level.

Apologies if the above is a guide on how to suck eggs but to get a 'normal' life out of a Banner that is the way forward.