R500 K Emissions. HC 1,000ppm Solved again - several years later.

[anthonym]

the question is: will a faulty lamda oxygen sensor stop the ECU from being able to go "closed loop"? Or will it go closed loop anyway (or should do) and not get the info it is looking for. 

If the ECU is clever enough to know the lamda sensor has failed and avoid going closed loop, that would explain this matter.

https://www.hella.com/techworld/uk/Technical/Sensors-and-actuators/Test-lambda-sensor-4379/

 

[anthonym]

anyone know the correct part for a K R500 lamda oxygen sensor (EU2)? I cannot see it on Caterham parts (and yes Redline is looking in to it, but does anyone here know?)

 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

You have all your basic closed loop settings with appropriate values, but there must also be a mapping table that applies closed loop for given engine load and speed values, as it shouldn't be an all or nothing setup. This should be under the Feedback Mode tab.
 

[revilla]

Anthony,

No offence intended but I think at this point the car sounds like it needs setting up by somebody who knows the Emerald properly. There are so many setting all interdependent on each other, once you start making little changes here and there you will end up wandering further and further away from where you should be.

You're making stabs in the dark at the moment. For example 

strikes me that at idle the throttle percentage should be zero, not 3%

... on what basis have you concluded that? On a properly calibrated MEMS 3 the throttle percentage is 3.92% at idle (1/255th). What it should be on the Emerald is probably different and probably dependent on the other settings the tuner decided to use.

I think it needs systematically setting up following the correct sequence, possibly with the assistance of rollers.

My guess would be that it's not a failed lambda sensor. If it was running rich due to a failed sensor, it would be because the sensor was telling it that it was lean and the ECU was trying to compensate in vain. Your sensor is telling you it is rich. Your nose agrees.

Andrew

 

[anthonym]

I am not making any changes to the Emerald setup, for the reasons you give.  These maps were created by the two steves. I have not changed the throttle percentage. 

I have not changed anything at all in the maps ECU . Nothing and nor will I. 

What I am doing is

(1) returning the car to how it was before I « reset » the TPS. Should not have done that in the first place. The TPS now matches the map to within one throttle stop (as described above) - it also matches the original impedance which is a comfort given I set it « live » looking at the screen. 

(2) and the reason for all of this, looking for something obvious as per my « too rich » thread where all we could do was guess because I was away. The conclusion was to connect the Emerald software to the Emerald K6 ECU and look to see any obvious errors such as faulty sensors. This is what I am now trying to do. Of course. It is difficult because I do not know what I am looking at. Note I am looking I am not touching these dyno created professional maps. Of which there are two. One « mot » and one « track ».

So there we are. If I do not do this I cannot use my car, and getting a professional to do this is a trip to the UK with the car, by trailer, many days and much money. 

Ps my nose tells me nothing. Nor any sensor (how do you do that?) The reason I know it is rich is the mot failure with HC ten times the limit.

I am awaiting hopefully a remote session from said professional and endeavouring to have the car ready for his attention by ensuring it is as he should be able to expect to find it, with working sensors and TPS as expected (a specific request).

My current question is why is it not going closed loop despite the parameters being met?

Anthony

[oilyhands]

When you align the throttle pot in the software it aligns with the map, you dont need to know the value hen the map ws written, that is the whole point, You dont need the resistance or voltage valves either, it is simpler than that and you are over thinking it and confusing techniques required when using the MBE. 

Balance your Tbs and ensure you have around 5KG/hr through each barrel.

Then just align the TPS in the menu. You will then  be as the map was when it was written.

Closed loop load/speed sites are set in the feedback mode tab on the injection page. If you dont set these up it won’t go into closed loop.

Try not to go off on too many tangents, most of the opinions here are ill informed,

If it i too rich at any loas/speed site then lean it off a little, save the map first so you can return things to as they were if it goes pear shaped.

Based on around 250 Emerald/TB instals.

Oily

[anthonym]

Oily please see https://www.lotus7.club/comment/2292984#comment-2292984

How will know when it is no longer too rich? I have a useless sense of smell.

Steve G is due to log in. 

[oilyhands]

Read my post...

Closed loop wl not operate unless you setup the load/speed sites at which your want it to in the ‘feedback mode; tab of the injection page.

Oily

[anthonym]

My link displays those settings. Or is that some other page? Just popping to the car...

THANK YOU! For the phone call :-)

Feedback load sites now set for closed loop. I will test it in the morning - too late at night here now. 

[oilyhands]

Look at the lambda feedback strip in ‘live adjustments when the engine i idling and up to temperature, this will tell you if it is rich or lean, ideally in closed loop the strip should cycle between around 15(lean) and 13(rich)  Ish. If the strip does not move then it may be that the sensor is incorrectly configured or is dead. There are some simple checks to see which of those it is that I can show you once you have tried closed loop.

Oily

[anthonym]

Closed loop achieved:

[anthonym]

The lamda strip remains static at 11.4 (11.5 momentarily occasionally)

[revilla]

What is that "Input Source: [0] Not used" telling you? What are the options there?

[anthonym]

​

 

[anthonym]

and for. Enquring minds about the barometric pressure:

[revilla]

Hopefully Dave will be able to fill us in but I don't understand the earlier screenshot:

It says it's running Closed Loop, which should mean it is using feedback from the lambda sensor to trim the fuelling. Then it shows a target lambda of 14.7 and a measured lambda of 11.4, which I would have imagined should mean it would then try to trim the fueling to correct it. But it shows 0 trim on the injection, like it's not trying.

I'm really not familiar with the Emerald software so I may be misunderstanding.

[anthonym]

We’ll see what he says.

[Sim]

From the manual

 

If a narrow band sensor is wired to the dedicated input ECU pin 7 the Sensor type setting in the main map should be set to ‘Simple O2 sensor’.

When set this way the ECU will read the signal from pin 7, rescale it to 0-5v by multiplying by 5 and then convert to AFR using the voltage-AFR conversion table. The voltage-AFR conversion table is part of the ECU configuration and can be accessed via the menu ‘ECU configuration | AFR Lambda input’.

Note: when set to ‘Simple O2 sensor’ the ECU will only look at pin 7 to read the lambda signal, the Input source setting in the AFR/Lambda input configuration screen is ignored. Also, if a narrow band sensor is connected to another spare analogue input (e.g. AuxIn10) then you must set the Sensor type to ‘Wideband+controller, AFR’ and configure the voltage-AFR conversion table to suit the 0-1v input range.  

 

So it looks correct - depending on how the car's actually wired up

 

Simon

[revilla]

I've double checked all the notes and cross-reference tables we made up for the wiring when we did the loom (I saved everything on my laptop). Lambda signal (Slate wire) that was on MBE Pin 29 we wired to Emerald Pin 7. I would have checked everything when complete again with a continuity checker to pick up any mistakes so I think it will be wired correctly.

The MBE loom then has the ground side of the lambda connected to Pin 24 (Analogue Ground). I believe we wired this and the other analogue ground (Pin 23) from the MBE to Emerald Pin 30 which looks right.

All of this looks to be consistent with your DVA notes and the sheet that Carl from Emerald sent, so I think we're OK on the wiring front.

[CageyH]

Are you getting to the conditions that allow the closed loop condition to activate?

[revilla]

In your screen shot where it says "Lambda: Closed loop" ... Does that start off saying something else like "Open loop" when you first start, then switch to "Closed loop"? As per CageyH's question above, trying to understand if that box means you have selected closed loop or if it is telling you that closed loop is active.

[CageyH]

I have just checked the manual. It is going closed loop.

 

States are warm up. Open loop, closed loop and adaptive.

 

If it were me I would start checking that the lambda is connected to the correct pin on the ECU, and if it is, I would be changing the sensor.

[anthonym]

Yes. 

Also I have seen ´ Simple o2 sensor ´ selected .. somewhere... here https://www.lotus7.club/comment/2293025#comment-2293025

[CageyH]

Assuming you have the map saved safely, alter the fuelling in the live adjustments page and see if the lambda changes.

 

Number 1 clears the fuel trim, and returns the ECU to the mapped value

Number 2 reduces the fuel trim

Number 3 increases the fuel trim.

 

I would make changes with the number 2 and 3 to see if the lambda changes, and then press 1 when you have finished playing around. That way you will not alter the fuelling of the original map.

 

Note, you have to use the main keyboard and not the number pad.

[revilla]

OK ... So all the indications (plugs, emissions) are that it is running rich. The sensor is reading rich. Even if the sensor is faulty, it seems to be telling the ECU it is rich when it is rich right now, so why isn't the ECU trimming to try to correct this? What are we missing?