ballisticsupersport Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Hi POBC, my first post for a while...I have a sigma SuperSport with standard non vented discs all round but with mintex 1144 pads at the front and up rated master cylinder.At the end of my last trackday I had a sudden loss of braking performance when entering a hairpin, thankfully with no one in front...At the time I just put it down to tyres or brakes or driver overheating. I should say that I’d been doing much longer sessions on track than I normally do - circa 45 minutes and I had been working on my braking.Anyway I put the car on my trailer and didn’t think much more about it, until I took the car last Sunday for a quick drive. I had to use noticeably more force on the pedal to stop and there was also an occasional screech which has never been present before.This morning I’ve taken the pads off and there seems to be a lot of meat left, although I’ve no idea how thick they were to start with. The surface of the pads doesn’t look great but again I don’t know really what the surface should look like. The discs are in good condition.Pads are approximately 2 1/2 years 2000 (mostly road) miles old.brake fluid level is fine and I can’t see any leaks.pedal feel seems to be as normal.sorry for the long post, any ideas or recommendations? Or do I just need new pads?ThanksTom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Are your pads genuine 1144s or could they be fakes. A lot of those around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballisticsupersport Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 They were supplied and fitted by a reputable specialist so I would be confident that they are genuine... is there a way to check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Sorry,No idea. Maybe Google is your friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 can you clarify loss of braking performance please....did you have the pedal go to the floor.....?did you have a firm pedal but significantly less retardation....?was there a noticeable imbalance ie all front or all rear....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosshogg Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I had the very same experience at Mallory in to the hairpin. Very scary, the pedal feel was there but brakes were ineffective. I had to pump them twice to get them to bite. I put it down to overheating of the pads. I changed them and the fluid when I got home. I haven't had a problem since. Alastair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballisticsupersport Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Pedal feels pretty much the same as it always has, maybe a touch softer but by no means does the pedal go to the floor.yep, just a lot less retardationnot sure re the front/rear balance, on the track the car did step out when the incident happened but this may have been me just trying to make the corner at a much higher entry speed. On the road I didn’t notice more braking from the rear but I was not braking hard deliberately due to my concerns with the brakes.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballisticsupersport Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Thanks for that, mine happened at Snetterton.I was thinking of doing exactly what you’ve suggested, not a massive outlay all things considered!Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosshogg Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Agreed. Worth it for the peace of mind if nothing else! Alastair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Sound like brake fade, ie you have exceeded the working temperature range of the pads after which the co efficient of friction drops off resulting in a firm pedal but reduced braking, the cure is either increase the cooling over the current brakes or consider a different material with an increased thermal working range, something like Ferodo DS3000, if your using the car hard then certainly look at using a good high spec fluid Ferodo Super Formula or Motul 660.I you don't already have the flexible rear brake lines then change the dangerous OE solid versions NOW.You may gain a longer pedal that comes back after a pump if you have excess wheel bearing play as the pads get knocked back a little, certainly an area to check whilst your in that area.Also have you checked the rear pads, these do a significant amount of work and often get overlooked, equally these may be the origin of your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Unlikely to be fluid if you have a firm pedal although advice above very sound. More likely glazed pads and/or disks. You could try abrading the pads to see if that makes any difference, and then the disks which you will need to do anyway if you're going to change the pad material type. You could consider putting on new disks as the standard ones are cheap enough. Ex Triumph Herald/Spitfire as I recall and available from Rimmer Bros for £11.50 each incl VATPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 For reference:http://www.retro-uk.com/mintex_pads.htmand Ferodo:https://www.ferodoracing.com/products/car-racing/racing-brake-pads/ds3000/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 If you really want to stop try PFC. I use their 01 compound, now superseded by 13 compound, for hill climbs and on the road and they are magic. So long as you don't mind very black wheels from the dust, and not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballisticsupersport Posted October 13, 2018 Author Share Posted October 13, 2018 Brilliant advice, thanks guys. My next question was going to be what can I do to prevent this situation happening again!I’ll investigate the various pad/fluid options tomorrow.thanks again.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 you've answered your own question there, I mentioned some cures in post #10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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