Sheds Moderator Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Over the last couple of freezing days my 7 has been difficult to start. Once turning over it is fine but it really struggles upon cranking. The battery was renewed in Sept and I have been driving the car at least once a month since then. It's only been a problem Friday onwards, which coincides with my using the 7 to get to work owing to my other car being off sick with a dead alternator. I get 12.5V engine off and 13.3V running (at thge battery) Resistance between earth and batt -ve is 0.5 ohms. I have not had the chance to clean up all the earth leads yet owing to a lack of enthusiasm in these temps. Any clues? I reckon 0.5 ohms is high and the charging voltage is a bit low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 Sorry, it's a 1.4 kss, no immobiliser, std. alternator, Banner battery, ex Caterham, as fitted standard in '96. My auto electrician reckons it is too small for the duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben7 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I have the same problem at the moment (see my thread battery/hot start problems). Any help would be much appreciated. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 one product to sort out this problem......BATTERY CONDITIONER! about £35 and you will never have this problem again 😬 Martin MW 51 CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Resistance from earth to battery lead should be 0.00x Ohms not 0.5 ohms. Yes it is too high. 13.3v charging voltage would be fine at idle, but running it suggests a depleted battery. Just being more than 12.5 volts tells you which way the current is flowing. I would expect to see over 14 volts when running at reasonable revs, depending on whether the battery has just started the car or not. At the end of a run, I would definitely expect to see 14.4V or whatever the alternator regulator is set to. I would sort out your earth problem first of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Martin's correct with the advice to get a battery conditioner - it will supply a couple of hundred milliamps of current to keep the battery on charge and will automatically decrease this current as the battery reaches peak charge. 0.5 ohms between battery -ve and earth would be huge. You may have a bad connection or it may be a meter anomaly. What does your meter read when you touch the leads together? If the meter probes are slightly oxidised they may well read 0.5 ohms on their own. To deliver the 300 amps or so needed to start the car, the resistance in the starting circuit would need to be around no more than about 0.01 ohms. Can you have someone check the battery voltage while you try to crank the starter? If it falls below say 9.5 volts while cranking, there is a real problem with either the resistance of the circuit or the battery's internal resistance (ie: kn**kered!). Also it would be worth checking if there is any current drain when the car is just sitting there. I know you said there is no immobilser etc but it probably would be at least worth checking by undoing the earth lead and inserting a sensitive ammeter (multimeter) in series. However the quiescent voltage of 12.5v which you measured would indicate that the battery is actually fairly well charged. One should measure the battery's capacity under load to be accurate but approx the following holds good for the open circuit voltage on a battery. (ie: disconnected) battery voltage _______________ % charge 12.6 or more___________________100 12.4 - 12.6_____________________75-100 12.2 - 12.4_____________________50-75 11.7 - 12.0_____________________ 0-25 < 11.7_________________________it's a dead parrot So I am led to believe that you do indeed have some kind of bad connection. On freezing days the acid/water mixture is more sluggish and cannot circulate as freely - this makes things far harder to start anyway. But if you have more than about 0.01 ohms resistance then by Monsieur Georg Ohm's little formula the voltage drop at 300 amps starting current will be 0.01x300 = 3 volts, hence the cranking voltage of, say, 12.5 - 3 = 9.5 mentioned above. You can see that with half an ohm, the voltage drop on cranking would be more than the whole battery voltage and so nothing will happen engine-wise. In fact what will happen is that the current will be limited to (ohm's law again) 12/0.5 = 24 Amps, so the starter motor won't turn. The defective half-ohm connection will also dissipate around 300W of heat at 24 Amps so at least you won't get cold while you're trouble shooting! This is a bit long-winded but I hope it helps somewhat. Chris 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Edited by - Chris W on 17 Feb 2003 10:53:02 Edited by - Chris W on 17 Feb 2003 11:42:20 Edited by - Chris W on 17 Feb 2003 13:22:42 Edited by - Chris W on 17 Feb 2003 18:11:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted February 17, 2003 Author Share Posted February 17, 2003 Thanks gents, this confirms my suspicions. I can't fit a batt conditioner as there is no power in my lockup. ☹️ Also 0.5 ohms 'twixt batt and block = XS volts drop on cranking, thank you Mr. Ohm. I will try again with an assistant with the batt on load. Also will try jump lead from block to battery. The multimeter is working OK. It's prob. corrosion on the earth strap terminators, time for a star washer or two and a clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Same problem for me !!! A Battery Conditioner is a good idea BUT would NOT solve this issue. (I have a conditioner). I suspect that the poor little old Banner has no 'reserve' such that as soon as there is even a slight drop then there will be the starting problems as stated. For a few more lbs, a bigger battery would be better. (Or resign yourself to having to buy a new battery on a regular basis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 May not help in this case but if you have no power in the garage you could try here not a 'conditioner' as such but would trickle charge. Ian - MI 5EVN - Slightly Vider 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Doh! Thanks Ian, no power in my garage, didn't occur to me to turn to Mother nature. Now, where did I put the woad? Brrrrrrrrr..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Battery voltage 'off-load' is of limited value - well, OK, it's of no value whatsoever. 'Off-load' should be 2.2v per cell, but this is meaningless because a nearly fully charged battery will give this value 'On-load' is better. 'On load' should be 2v per cell. with a fully charged battery. Testing the SG of the electroyte with a hydrometer will give a meaningful state of charge for each cell. Usually it is one cell which is 'asleep' if the battery is not doing a proper job. Cheers, Tony STILL waiting for my BRG SV kit. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Extract from the 7faq Battery thing. The 'off-load' voltage of a lead-acid cell, that is, its voltage when no electrical devices are connected, just a voltmeter, is approximately 2.2 volts. The 'off-load' voltage is the same for every lead-acid cell regardless of its plate size and remains at this value until the cell is practically 'dead', regardless of its state of discharge. When the cell approaches total discharge, its 'off-load' voltage begins to drop rapidly. This is the reason that the 'off-load' voltage of a battery is NOT a reliable indication of its state of charge. The 'on-load' voltage of a cell, that is, its voltage when electrical devices are being supplied by the battery, decreases gradually as the cell is discharged. This gradual decrease in terminal voltage is due to a gradual increase in the internal resistance of the cell caused by sulphation of the plates. This is the reason that the 'on-load' voltage of a battery IS one of the reliable indication of its state of charge. To give a high discharge current and a high terminal voltage under load, a battery must have low internal resistance. This characteristic can be achieved through extensive plate area. therefore, each cell contains several sets of plates. All the positive plates of a cell are connected by one connecting bar, and all the negative plates by another. Thus the plates are connected in parallel, further decreasing the internal resistance of the cell. The 'off-load' cell voltage is not affected; it remains the same as that of a single pair of plates. There being six cells, the 'off-load' voltage of a '12 volt' battery should be between 12.6 and 13.2 volts. A battery loses water by evaporation and by 'gassing' at the plates when fully charged. The level of the electrolyte should be maintained at all times approximately 1/4 inch above the top of the plates by topping up with distilled water or de-ionised water. NEVER EVER TAP WATER. The state of charge of a lead-acid cell can be most reliably determined by measuring the strength of the electrolyte solution. This is done with a HYDROMETER which measures the specific gravity(SG). A fully charged cell will have an SG of about 1.27 and a discharged cell will have an SG of about 1.17 When the battery is connected to an external circuit and current is flowing, lead sulphate is formed at both plates and the specific gravity will fall as the acid becomes weaker. When the SG has fallen to 1.17 the battery should be recharged. (The actual SG is dependent upon the temperature of the electrolyte. A hydrometer is not easy to read accurately and usually has coloured bands to make it easier to determine the state of charge). To charge a battery it is connected to a battery charger (an external charger or the car's alternator). which applies a slightly higher voltage (about 14 volts) and causes current to flow in the 'reverse' direction. While this is happening the lead sulphate which had been deposited on the plates is removed and the SG of the electrolyte rises to 1.27. As stated previously, the 'on-load' voltage of each cell of a fully charged lead-acid battery should be 2 Volts. The 'off-load' voltage of each cell of a lead acid battery should be 2.2 Volts. NOTE: The 'off-load' voltage IS NOT a reliable indication of the state of charge, whereas the 'on-load' voltage and/or the SG of each cell IS a reliable indication. Also be aware that each cell must have the required SG. One cell showing a lower SG than the others is an indication of a ‘dead' battery. 😬 😬 STILL waiting for my BRG SV kit. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Despite my long previous missive, and for the avoidance of doubt, I don't want to give the impression that my list of open-circuit voltages above is a replacement for the more precise measurements that Tony advocates, (on-load voltage and specific gravity) of which specific gravity (SG) is the most accurate and precise. On the contrary, o/c voltage is a "quick-and-dirty" method when one doesn't have a hydrometer handy or there is no easy way to measure on-load voltage (no assistant maybe). However, despite that, open-circuit voltage IS a reasonably good "indicator" of approximate battery charge and the list I posted is endorsed by "Battery Council International" one of the industry bodies on battery technology. So, in the blue corner, and with the greatest respect to Tony, I can't agree that "off-load voltage is of no use whatsoever". On the other hand, even a specific gravity measurement, although it will give a very precise "state of charge" figure will not tell you how good the battery is for running the car. The only measurement for this, and here I totally agree with Tony, is on-load voltage. ie: what can the battery really deliver - this is what counts. But the difficulty here is that the on-load voltage will depend on what load you actually put on the battery when you test it. A few amps will give one reading and a larger current will give a lower reading sometimes far lower than 2v/cell. If one cranked the starter for 15 secs - without starting - the battery voltage would drop to about 9.5 volts (or ~1.6v/cell) temporarily, but a good battery will still be a good battery after this and the cell voltage will recover. If the voltage drops to much lower than 9.5 volts however, this is an indication that you probably need a new battery. The reason for this is that what kills all batteries eventually is its internal resistance (unless you drop it of course and the acid goes all over your feet!). A discharged battery has a higher internal resistance than a fresh one but this process is reversible through charging. But the process is not perfect and the chemical changes in each charge/discharge cycle will, after enough time, create a permanently "high" internal resistance so that the battery can never deliver enough current. This normally takes maybe a few years in a well-looked after battery. But totally discharge a lead-acid car battery and leave it for an extended time without recharging and you will kill a battery prematurely. Hence the reason that the battery conditioners advocated many times are so good. They keep a small current flowing into the battery to negate the effects of the immobiliser etc or the self-discharge that all batteries experience which slowly but surely will drain the battery totally if we don't drive the car often enough. Another massive missive!! Chris 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hi Chris, how you keeping. We do both seem to enjoy battery threads 😬 I can only bang my head on the nearby wall and direct attention to my previous entry. OFF-LOAD VOLTAGE IS WORTHLESS. A discharged battery, for the purpose of doing useful work (why else do you have a battery), after a 'rest' will still give 2.2 volts per cell, but will not even be able to 'pull-in' the starter solenoid. So what is the value of a seemingly 'good' 'off-load' voltage? - zero, nada, zilch, nil, none It's dead, gone, deceased, knackered, boat anchor - until recharged, of course. With the greatest repect; what is the point of researching the subject, presenting the FACTS and people not even bothering to read them? I give-up! 😬 A lead-acid battery stores chemical energy - not electricity !!!!!!!!! Once the chemical energy is used, beyond a certain value, that's IT - you then need to restore the chemical energy by recharging. As Peter said, the alternator or external charger has to supply about 14 volts, otherwise NOTHING will "go in" !!!!!!!!!! To ascertain the chemical energy in a lead-acid battery the SG of the electrolyte must be measured - and even that is not infallable! But SG and on-load voltage together are pretty reliable. What on-load? Don't know specifically, but headlights would be IMHO a reasonable load. This will floor you - electrons flow out of the negative battery terminal, into the chassis and back, via the closed circuit wiring, to the battery positive terminal !!!!!!! 😬 I am really banging my poor computer keys in frustration 😬 Please find the time to read and absorb the '7faq extract' I posted earlier - Please. One of the resons for my suggestion for a "Good Engineering Practice" 'thread' was so that we can all get away from the personal opinion side of some of the more technical subjects. The three-above entry: "Extract from 7faq" is a cut-and-paste from the article on lead-acid batteries. OK, I wrote the article, but it was not a quick ten minute 'job', replying to a previous entry "off the top of my head". I used several respected publications for the facts and the article has been verified independently by several experts in the field - just so we don't continue to misunderstand one another. I am not putting myself forward as the final arbiter on this, or any other subject. I guess I should have waited until 7faq goes 'public', but off-load voltage is worthless for our purposes and it needed saying - sorry! Might be a worthwhile article for LF - in its entirety. STILL waiting for my BRG SV kit. 😬 Edited by - Tony C on 17 Feb 2003 23:06:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Hi Tony (I want a clean fight, no biting or scratching!!!) Sorry to disagree, but a discharged or partially discharged battery after a rest will NOT give 2.2v per cell on open circuit (o/c). That equates to 13.2 v across the battery. You will only see this kind of cell voltage on a fully charged battery just off the charger. And if you leave a fully charged battery to settle for an hour or so the terminal voltage will more likely be around 12.6volts. The o/c voltage WILL decrease in line with the stored energy in the cell approximately as in my original list. And, as I said in my posts, o/c voltage and indeed even specific gravity are a measure of the CHARGE in a battery, not a measure of whether that battery can deliver that charge with enough amps to light the lamps. An analogy could be a canal lock full to the brim with water. ie: fully charged. The battery's internal resistance could be represented by the sluice gate that lets the water out and the amount of water gushing out when the sluice gate is opened would represent the current. If that sluice gate is jammed almost shut (ie: representing a high internal resistance) it doesn't matter how full the lock is, you'll never get a high current out of it. Also most locks leak anyway, so the level of water drops slowly if it's not topped up - analogous to the self discharge of the battery. The o/c voltage is like measuring the depth of the water - it can be deep but it doesn't mean you're gonna get any water out of it. Going back to our battery, only a true load test will show how wide the sluice gate is open. The reason that chargers (which as you quite rightly say drive current back into the battery - filling the lock again) supply about 14 volts is for two reasons: 1. there is a voltage drop across the internal resistance of the battery and..... 2. there is a larger voltage drop across the internal resistance of the charger itself So (ignoring some second order effects) the current that is fed back into the battery is simply 14 volts minus the battery voltage (say 12v) divided by the total of the resistances in 1 & 2 above. The designer of the charger or alternator will find a compromise figure for current that doesn't cook the battery because we are charging it at too high a value or alternatively doesn't take forever to charge the battery. As the battery charges, its volts/cell rise and so the current that flows from the charger is "automatically" decreased because the difference between the battery voltage and the charger voltage decreases and so there is less electrical "pressure" to push the current through the various resistances. You see this every time you use a regular battery charger - the meter swings over healthily to the right when you first connect the thing to a discharged battery, but in the morning the needle is back over to the low current side of the meter because the cell voltage has risen. To a first approximation, the battery conditioners we all advocate are identical to regular chargers but incorporate a higher resistance to keep the charging current down to a "trickle" - starting off at around 250 millamps and decreasing to virtually nothing once the battery is charged. I realise that some of them ((eg: Airflow) incorporate "intelligence" to stop the charging completely and allow the battery to discharge somewhat before starting to charge it again in order to "cycle" the battery, but fundamentally there is not a lot of difference. You can make yourself a great mains battery conditioner very cheaply by using a small step-down transformer, a voltage regulator chip set to 14 volts and putting a 10 ohm resistor in series with it. For a very small price (£5) - far less than you can buy them in the shops - you end up with a trickle charger that delivers 300mA or so at the beginning and negligible current once the battery's charged. I've used one of these for years to keep my boat batteries topped up. It doesn't do the slightly more clever things that the Airflow one does, but it works and I have never had any problems. Actually Tony I'm NOT disagreeing with you in that however we measure the charge, by "my" method or "your" method, if the battery is just nailed to the perch it isn't going to deliver enough oomph to turn the engine over. The only area I can see where we do disagree is whether o/c voltage changes as a battery discharges. And if you don't want to trust my "quick-and-dirty" method, I really don't mind old buddy. It works for me, you use what you're comfortable with. Chris 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 No problem Chris. BUT, I don't think "what works for you" has any real value in what we are trying to achieve here. I'm not disagreeing with you, I am merely trying to diseminate widely accepted facts; trying to pass on information to others, so that they have a different understanding, hopefully of value to them in the care and understanding of "that lump" in the corner of their engine bay. There is zero "my opinion" in the facts I have presented here and above. 😬 I know you were joking, but I don't intend to fight; nothing to fight about ! Please read the bit I have just added to the previous post. Don't particularly like the lock and sluice gate analogy either 😬 You can't argue with chemistry !!! OFF LOAD VOLTAGE IS WORTHLESS as a practical indication of the work that can be got out of "That lump in the corner" with Banner written on it; not an opinion - fact. 😬 Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Tony Ref your statement: ".......OFF LOAD VOLTAGE IS WORTHLESS as a practical indication of the work that can be got out of "That lump in the corner" ........" If you read my mutterings carefully you will see that I totally agree with that statement in all my postings tonight! Off-load voltage will indeed tell you NOTHING about how much you can get OUT of the battery.... only what is IN the battery that could be got out if other factors are OK (like internal resistance). The areas where off-load voltage is useful (IMHO) is to tell you there isn't much water in the well, so even if you can get it all out, there's only a bucketful of charge left anyway. It can also indicate that the battery needs charging and its level of approximate charge - it can't tell you whether, once it's charged, the battery can actually deliver the business. Being new to this forum and 7's only since the beginning of this month, I was unaware that you had researched this field for "7faq". In fact I don't even know what "7faq" is!! I wouldn't presume to undermine all your research and have no intention of so doing but my experience in life is that even when you consult "experts", as you say you have done for this research, you can get different people to give you contrasting expert "facts" which in reality are expert "opinions". The Battery Council International (a US organisation) do a technical CD for $18 on this topic plus tons more on battery chemistry and physics. (www.batterycouncil.org). I'm not connected (excuse the pun) with them BTW. Anyway, let's not fall out over this.... I gotta go to bed now to recharge MY battery. cheers Chris 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Edited by - Chris W on 18 Feb 2003 00:36:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben7 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Wow, I never knew batteries could be so interesting! 😬 😬 😬 Sorry to go back to the original question, but does anybody know where I can buy a heavy duty battery for my 7. (I've checked Banner 30AHhrs & 300 cranking amps is there anything bigger out there (I also use a battery conditioner by the way)). Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Sorry V5000SV, got a bit carried away there 😬 Redtop apparaently do a fine line of 'Racing' Batteries which will give you more crank-ability. As to the other matter; just consider an average 'Joe Bloggs' intending to start his car and only getting "CLICK". Testing the battery (after kicking the obligatory cat of course 😬 ) using your proposed off-load voltage method Chris and getting a 12.6 volt reading or more, which according to you indicates 100% charge, will mislead poor ol' Joe into thinking that his battery is not the problem 😬 Does this sound like a good idea to promulgate ? The object, IMHO, of testing a battery is to discover if it is the problem. Off-load voltage is worthless for this purpose, or for anything other than testing your multimeter 😬 This is not my opinion, it's fact. Readers of this forum, when it comes to technical subjects like this, are not interested in your opinion, OR MINE, but cold, hard facts that they can use to trouble-shoot their problem. It is a WIDELY accepted fact that on-load voltage and electrolyte SG together, are a reliable indication of the state of your battery. If you switch on your headlights for a few minutes and still get 12 volts and the SG of each cell is "in the green", you can be reasonably certain that the fault lies elsewhere in the system. STILL waiting for my BRG SV kit. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Jeez Tony - talk about dogma. I could direct you to many, many web sites from battery manufacturers to truck manufacturers who all use and advocate off-load voltage as an indication of the state of battery charge. You say that SG is the only method to test the charge in a battery - so how would you propose to test the SG of a gell-filled sealed lead acid battery? On-load testing will certainly tell you that the battery is man enough (or not) at any particular moment, but it won't tell you how much charge is in the battery. The "fact" you keep promulgating that the off-load voltage of a discharged or charged battery is always 2.2v/cell is WRONG Tony. A fully charged battery will show 2.2v/cell (13.2v total)straight off a charger. A fully charged battery that has settled and had the surface charge removed (headlights on for a couple of minutes then off) will show 2.1v/cell (12.6v total). Don't take my word for it, go do some measurements. A battery is considered fully discharged when its o/c cell voltage drops to about 1.95v/cell (11.7v total). These measuremnts MUST be done with a digital voltmeter - an analogue (ie: needle type) meter is just not accurate enough to indicate such small millivolt changes. This is not my opinion, I wasn't born with this information, I read, studied and experimented over the years to get to either acceptance or rejection of the available information. I have a boat and boat batteries are subjected to far more torture than those in cars so most boat owners soon become very familiar with how to test and nurture batteries. I've also been a graduate electronics engineer for nearly 30 years - that doesn't make me correct - but at least I'm connected with the technology. Hey - I don't want anyone to take this as gospel cos I say it. Go read the web and find me an article that contradicts me. I can find dozens of professional articles that support what I have written. At the end of the day it's down to everyone to make their own judgement before deciding to use or reject any info on this forum. As a starter (pun intended) try http://www1.mn.man.de/manted/aufbaurichtlinien/gb_f5.html#Anchor-23240 which is the huge MAN truck manufacturer website in Germany. You can check it yourself but one extract from their site under "Handling Batteries" reads: • Regularly measure the off-load voltage at each battery (at least once a month). Guidelines 12.6 V = fully charged; 12.3 V = 50% charge. • Recharge immediately if off-load voltage is 12.25 V or less (no fast charging). Tony - let's agree to differ - subject closed - I gotta get a life. Chris 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Edited by - Chris W on 19 Feb 2003 00:40:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Chris W Before you go and get a life 😬 You can make yourself a great mains battery conditioner very cheaply by using a small step-down transformer, a voltage regulator chip set to 14 volts and putting a 10 ohm resistor in series with it. Any chance of a circuit diagram / parts list? Cheers Steve Se7en-Up! Less is more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Steve Be delighted to... I'll email you the diagram. You can get a great little case with 240v normal plug pins already incorporated from Maplin (see www.maplin.co.uk). I'm sure RS and others do them too. Chris 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Nice to meet you last night Chris and look forward to seeing your new SV on Saturday. I wish I'd met you earlier, I could have avoided all those lectures and the 17 years I spent as an Aircraft Engineer learning the practical aspects of, among other things, Lead-Acid battery care and maintenance. I'm now going to have to write to all my past instructors to inform them that they were wrong when they told me that for practical purposes off-load voltage is of little value. Those wasted weeks in the battery shop when I was an apprentice! When I inform my colleagues at work that they've been misinformed all these years and they've been telling their students this foolishness there will be manifold gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. I hate to contemplate the reaction when I tell the guys in the hangar. Oh my God, just think of it! Must also write and tell they guys at the CAA, FAA and JAA. Oh no - the paperwork. The above is hardly worthy of this discussion, but I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. 😬 Cheers, Tony STILL waiting for my BRG SV kit. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben7 Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Ahhh crank-ability, now you're talking my language!! 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Tony At last we agree on something.................. you're right................ your comments weren't worthy of the discussion! 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Edited by - Chris W on 19 Feb 2003 11:03:21 Edited by - Chris W on 19 Feb 2003 11:04:05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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