Duratec R500 - new member requires advice re. brake master cylinder

[justcallmemac]

Hello,

New to the Club having recently bought an R500D. 

Just have one quick question for now

How can I tell whether I have the standard master cylinder or the AP Race version or did the R500D come with the latter as standard? Have embedded a couple of pic of the one in the car below.

Reason I ask is that the brake feel is 'spongy' and not what I'd expect. Might simply be down to brake fluid etc but the car was recently serviced by CC and has only done one track day in it's 1,000 mile life.

Many thanks in advance,

Steve

 

 

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Welcome.

I can't see those Dropbox images... are they set up for public access?

Jonathan

PS: Where are you?

[justcallmemac]

Hi Jonathan,

That's odd. I've set them to share. I've just refreshed Dropbox so can you try again please.

To answer your question, just outside of Winchester.

Thanks,

Steve

[Jonathan Kay]

Just the same. Let's see if they're visible to others.

Jonathan

[nigelpugh]

I can't see the pictures either.

i thought my R500 duratec had the updated master cylinder as standard.

[shn7]

Does it have an orange cable tie around the body? Used to identify the bore size and I believe orange is the updated model.

[russjones]

I woul,d ask CC

They will tell yiu and also ask them if the high effort pedal is fitted 

my experience  with a super sports r D 2015

terrible soft pedal - when it went into book a track then advised getting the high effort brake pedal which they supplied and transformed the pedal feel instantly

very solid pedal made even better with Mintex pads

 - make sure you get the associated brake cylinder spacer which alters the angle of the cylinder and  lets the piston arm attach to the pedal so when it pushes it it still parallel to the cylinder

for the ultimate pedal the next stage is the AP updated cylinder which are stored next to hens teeth and rocking horse poo as they cannot be found in stock anywhere at the moment

ps if doing this tip for fitting the new spacer is to cut it to allow it to slip past the actuating arm on the piston so the cylinder only needs loosening and not removing to fit it 

Hope that helps

[nigelpugh]

As mentioned the Orange cable tie around the body is an identifier of the Uprated Master Cylinder .

Here it is on the Caterham parts website.

http://caterhamparts.co.uk/product.php?id_product=29

And an actual picture from the same link.

[nigelpugh]

Here's an actual picture of the Uprated master cylinder in one of our Superlight twenty model.

[Mankee]

BG Developments have the uprated AP master cylinders on the shelf:

http://www.bgdevelopments.co.uk/

[Mrp]

As Mankee says, slightly more expensive but on the shelf delivered the next day. Just phone to order very good service. 

Mrp

[justcallmemac]

Many thanks for all the replies. You've confirmed I already have the AP upgraded m/c.

Will change the fluid and pads (DS2500) and if there's still no improvement to the pedal feel, consider the high effort brake pedal.

Cheers again,

Steve

 

[Shortshift]

Steve

Resurrecting this thread somewhat but, for what it's worth, I have the high-effort pedal fitted in conjunction with the uprated master cylinder and AP Racing 4-pot calipers and it really helps to firm-up the pedal; travel is much reduced yet, to me, brake pedal efforts are not out of line with the inputs needed on other controls. 

If you go for this, you should also fit the angled shim or collar which alters the installed angle of the master cylinder (inclined downwards towards the rear) to better align the pushrod and clevis arrangement with the new connection point on the pedal (different distance from the pedal fulcrum to the master cylinder push rod point).

Worth doing in my opinion.

James

[martyn]

Cant see the angled shim in the parts site.. do you have a link?

[Shortshift]

No link, Martyn, but looking back at the invoice the part is:

30B056A - High effort brake pedal shim - £19.69 (+VAT).

And just when you're thinking that's a lot for a piece of cast and part-machined aluminium alloy... you realise that you need two of them (they are akin to being a handed pair, with one fitted either side of the vertical face of the pedal box to achieve the inclined mounting for the master cylinder)

James

[Shortshift]

Just remembered: you need to be cute to install these shims without having to disconnect the cylinder from the hydraulics (with the attendant need to rebleed the entire system etc).

There are two ways; one is to cut a slot in each piece of the shim or collar so that it will fit 'over' the pushrod in situ (you'll see what I mean when it's in your hand) or, if you're like me, you will very carefully undo the circlip at the end of the master cylinder to release the pushrod and then - somehow - juggle things so that you can remove the end of the pushrod just enough to slip it through the anulus within the shim whilst also using a spare finger to prevent the innards of the master cylinder (the piston, seals and fluid) from disgorging themselves...

Can be done - but maybe an extra hand (meaning an extra person) would make it easier.  Or just settle for re-doing the bleeding routine.

James

[Tom_Arundel]

Just a thought. Check your front wheels for bearing play, it causes pad knock off and `funny`feel brakes.  Insufficient grease in the front wheel bearings is not uncommon .

[martyn]

Thanks.  Seems like its not on the parts site anymore.  I did already try searching for every combination of "shim", "bracket", "high effort", etc.   But it doesn't recognise the part number either.

I'll give them a call tomorrow.

[Shortshift]

I'm sure the part numbers will still be valid when you call, Martyn.  For information, here is the installation (only one of the two shims showing here; the second 'half' is on the other side of the mounting plate, inside the pedal box area).

 

James