Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 ... and the ignition light is still on before starting and goes off immediately after starting?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 So right back to basics here, I have a large orange light on the dash next to the starter button which comes on when the key is turned goes off when the engine is running is this ignition light or low oil pressure warning light , I'm not sure now starting to question myself ..Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 22, 2015 Member Share Posted March 22, 2015 Disconnect the oil pressure sender and test again.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thanks Jonathan will check this out tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Can you confirm that the wiring is the same as it was before you had the problem and that it worked correctly previously. The connection from the alternator to the starter is obviously okay as you're seeing the battery voltage at the alternator terminals.There is clearly no output from the alternator, so it's either a bad connection internally or a missing bridge connection from the output to the regulator voltage sense terminal, both unlikely as it apparently tested okay on the bench.You haven't changed the ignition warning light to an led have you? If so, the current will be insufficient for the field to be activated. There is a modification that can be done of you do have an led.A long shot: I have seen descriptions of alternators which are electrically insulated from their mounting brackets and so not connected on the ground side. Try connecting a thickish wire (30A) from the alternator body to the engine block or convenient chassis point and check the running voltage again.The only other suggestion would be to remove it and have it bench tested again, just to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Not sure if its worked correctly previously as ive only had the car a few months and it was sorned for a few years before I bought it but I suspect it had the original problem charging too high a voltage when I got it . Will try your earth wire suggestion but if that shows no improvement I think your right and its got to come back out for a retest. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Before you do anything else, disconnect the brown/yellow wire from the alternator terminal (you can leave the thick brown one connected) and measure the voltage on the brown/yellow wire, with meter neg wire to chassis. With ignition on this should be about +12V. If it's not then this is where your problem lies. The alternator needs a voltage here, which is fed from the +12V supply via the ignition warning light, to energise the field winding. If you touch the chassis with this wire, still disconnected from the alternator, the ignition warning light should come on. I'm a bit loath to suggest you do the latter in case it's not wired as I expect, but you could do it with a 2A fuse in series to be safe, just in case!If there's no voltage and/or the light doesn't come on, you need to find where that brown/yellow wire goes. According the the diagrams that I have, it goes to the 'grey' plug and thence to the ignition warning light on the dash. The other side of the light should go to a main fuse and have ignition switched +12V on it.Let us know how you get on.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 large orange light on the dash next to the starter button I would be pretty certain this is an oil pressure light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I should add that the above tests should be done with ignition on but engine not running.I agree with Charles, it does seem likely that the yellow lamp is oil pressure warning rather than ignition, but you never know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 The orange light has checked out as oil pressure warning light , have run the check you suggested Paul on the disconnected brown yellow wire and got a very unstable mV reading but not the +12v we were looking for, checked the wire from the alternator to the grey plug and read ok , now strangely I don't have an ignition warning light , it's got a stack dash if that makes any difference, also couldn't locate the ignition fuse in the main fuse block but looking here could it be fuse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 24, 2015 Member Share Posted March 24, 2015 The orange light has checked out as oil pressure warning lightThat's a relief. Honestly!Yes, looks like the feed is from Fuse 2. Does the heater fan come on when asked to?Paul: Would it be a good idea to make a dummy direct "Brown/ Yellow" connection as a test?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Okay, I think we're getting somewhere.According to the CC build manual, the Stack dash version should still have a separate ignition warning light, wired as described before. Assuming you have identified that you have a warning light, not the orange one which we now know is oil pressure warning, touch the brown yellow wire to chassis and see if the lamp comes on. I'm guessing that it won't. You can either investigate why that is (you need to do this anyway), bad connection or blown bulb, or, as JK suggests, rig a separate feed to the alternator terminal. You must feed it through a low wattage panel bulb though to limit the current, otherwise you might damage the alternator. The latter test will verify whether the alternator is working so you can get on with chasing down the cause of the lamp not working. I think the warning light is 1Watt or thereabouts. If you had a 2W 100 Ohm resistor it would do the same thing.Top tip: to see what you're doing under the dash, lay an iPad in selfi mode on the floor with a light shining upwards. Works a treat. If no iPad, take some pictures with your camera phone.Nearly there!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Not had chance to check anything tonight , but got a 1.2w dash light for my dummy wire connection so thinking one end to alternator through bulb to No2 fuse green wire side, do I need to disconnect the existing wire to this fuse? I'm thinking now that the ignition light will be on the stack display as only got the oil pressure warning, indicator and full beam lights on the dash. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 That sounds like a plan although TBH you can connect it to any source of +12V if it's easier. The dash light should be perfect.Not being familiar with the Stack dash I can't comment but the wiring diagram that I have for cars both with and without Stack dash show a separate ignition warning light. Hopefully your test with the external bulb will show that the alternator is okay and charges correctly, and we can then chase down the problem in the wiring. Do you know if the car was built with the Stack or was it added later?Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 ok Paul thanks. it was built with the stack dash, will report back my findings Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Running the dummy wire has worked a treat and proved the alternator is working as it should, showing 14.3v on the dash and across the battery terminals. So tracing the brown yellow wire (is there only one br/yw wire on the car?) from the grey plug to under the dash have found the wire disconnected and taped over! So now to the green wire to No2 fuse (instruments heater) there are a couple of these free under the dash is it a case of connecting the dash bulb between br/yw and one of the green connectors to complete the circuit . Are we nearly there Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 25, 2015 Member Share Posted March 25, 2015 :-)That should be the only brown/yellow wire. Are you confident you've found the dash light?I think that plan is right. But you can get there by just changing one lead at a time on your dummy rig (probably easiest with a lead with a couple of croc clips) and checking that everything still works rather than all at once. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 No still not found a dash light just the taped over br / yw wire connector under the dash . Couple of connectors with green wires which I assume are for heater as that's not on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 That's good news and at least it's now working. I can't see how the alternator worked before unless there was either another wire or, unlikely, the alternator was able to start generating a voltage without the field being excited. Maybe the previous owner can help.You could either just drill a hole in the dash board to fit a permanent panel light (Vehicle Wiring Products do them) or try to get the stack to work. Do you have details of the stack dash so we can see if there's an internal lamp or led for ignition warning? If it's an led you'll almost certainly have to add a resistor for the charging to work. A 100 Ohm 5 Watt should do it and not get too hot, wired as your bulb is now with the Stack led in parallel. I can draw I diagram if you need a bit more detail.very curious though!paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 26, 2015 Member Share Posted March 26, 2015 What Paul says.Check the voltage on those green feeds at various "key" positions.Do you have details of the stack dash so we can see if there's an internal lamp or led for ignition warning?I don't know where the ignition warning light is on a standard Stack dash. I'd start a new thread with that Subject asking for descriptions and photos.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 A quick look at the Stack website here would suggest that ignition warning is not included in the display funtions and it needs a separate lamp. This bears out the CC wiring digram which has the same setup.As JK says, start a separate thread to see how other cars are connected up, then drill a hole in your dash board. I wouldn't be too fussed which wire/fuse the lamp goes to, so long as it's ignition switched and fused.Glad we saved you from having to remove the alternator again. Clearly the old regulator was goosed but I still can't see how it charged before - or maybe that's why the old reg failed. We may never know.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 yes all very strange the way the car is set up at the momentI Know the car was used in hill climbing and stored with a trickle charger so maybe that was enough for a weekends event and was sorned for the last few years plus my original fault was too much voltage which eventually ruined my battery but maybe maintained the battery before the voltage got too high , but i would have thought it should have worked before these faults developed. i have spoke to stack today and they say ignition warning light is not displayed on the stack unit so i think probably drill and fit a new light in the dash and get out and enjoy the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Absolutely, go and drive it.As far as I can tell from the wiring diagram, Stack cars didn't have an oil pressure warning light as standard although there is a 12V feed for an optional fit. I suspect that the PO disconnected the ignition light and replaced it with oil pressure warning lamp, either without realising, or caring, that the alternator would no longer charge the battery. As you say, a hillclimb car could run for a full day without flattening the battery.Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted March 26, 2015 Member Share Posted March 26, 2015 ... and get out and enjoy the car :-)Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_w Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Still got my final wiring but i think i'm all ok with what i need to do, good point about the oil pressure light Paul, probably more important to him with what he was doing. Just a big thanks to you all especially Paul And Jonathan for sticking with me and explaining so well what i needed to do. Brilliant advert for the clubMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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