2.0L Duratec build

[TomGaval]

I recently purchased a New Ford 2.0L Duratec engine at a great price that I thought would be the basis of a nicely tuned replacement for my 195bhp Rover K series.

After adding up the cost of all the parts necessary to make the change over from the RoverK to the Duratec, my bargain has certainly turned into an expensive project.

 

I know the topic has been done before and I have trolled the archives. Looking at the current Duratec tuning companies over there, I’m looking at the Raceline, the SBD and Premier Power sites to try to figure out which Package of components will be the best to make the build and install the least traumatic.

 

I currently track my car about 20 times a season, so I am looking for reliability and enough power to hang with the GT3RS’s and Corvettes down the straights. I guess I’m looking at the 250 to 280 hp range, and I will probably buy a package that includes the ECU, harness, Pistons, Rods, etc. that work together.

 

I noticed that on the SBD site it has an option for a slipper piston and rod combo, are they more reliable or less than standard forged pistons and rods? Are they worth the 50% premium in cost? I also noticed that SBD recommends the Titan external dry sump Pump vs the Raceline and Cosworth Internal pump design, any significant difference?

Any thoughts on the Induction option? SBD has their own TB set up, I currently have Jenvey’s on my RoverK and they have been good. Raceline seems to use the Jenvey’s, so any difference?

 

Lastly the bellhousing options. I have the Caterham 6 speed currently mated to the Caterham Internal Dry Sump bell housing, going to the Duratec, the options are for the Compact version or the standard version. Do they both work? Will the standard one be ok for an S3 chassis?

 

Any and all comments are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Tom

 

[Racingshoe]

Am currently doing exactly the same conversion as you. I can't comment on the pistons question, but can on the bellhousings.

 

The compact bellhousing allows the engine to be situated a bit further back in the chassis than the standard bellhousing. It also requires a smaller flywheel and more compact clutch than normal i believe, but as both will have to be bought new anyway that shouldn't be an issue. In order to make the compact bellhousing fit on an S3 you need the shortened passenger footwell. If not already shortened, you can do this yourself. The gearbox input shaft will also need replacing with a shorter version. Road&Race in the UK will do this, but not sure who would do it for you in the US.

 

I'm aiming for 260hp and hear that the Jenvey throttle bodies are more than adequate. Having had them on my K-series I see no issues in having the Duratec versions.

 

Hope that helps.

[catastrada]

Regarding the bellhousing you can have a short one from Raceline (20mm shorter => further back in the chassis, need shorter input shaft and loner engine mounts) that is not "compact".

In that case Flywheel and clutch kit are 8,5'' where the compact one requires 7,25'' items.

(I guess that the starter is different too).

[TomGaval]

I don't want to add the extra work of shortening the passenger side footwell if I don't have to. So in that case, which bellhousing is the correct one to use, does it require the changing of the input shaft and what size flywheel and clutch does it use?

*confused*

 

Thanks

Tom

[catastrada]

The bellhousing sold by Caterham for Duratec's (or the standard Raceline) will have the same length as yours (if it's the Caterham one). In that case no need to change the input shaft nor the footwell.

In that case flywheel and clutch kit need to be 8,5''.

[7 wonders of the world]

You don't need to shorten the footwell for the Short Raaceline option.

 

Piston and rods, plenty of choice here lots of people using the X Power / Williams rods which originate from MaxSpeeding Pistons are available form Omega, Cosworth Supertech etc etc.

 

DS kit the Titan and Pace are fully external belt driven

 

The Cosworth / Titan uses the the original OE internal oil pump with an additional internal scavenge pump mounted below. - this only offers the same ground clearance as a wet sump though

 

The Raceline replaces the OE internal pump with a compact pressure/scavenge unit which fits in the OE pump location, internal chain drive, simple pipework with the benefit of gaining 32mm of ground clearnence over the Cosworth / titan option,

 

Edited by - 7 wonders of the world on 8 Jan 2014 23:10:44

[Shaun_E]

I did this conversion last Winter. I bought the complete set-up from Raceline as they can supply a more or less turn-key unit including engine, engine mounts, bell housing, clutch, etc.

I went for the compact bell housing to move the engine back a bit - I had Road and Race shorten the input shaft for me while I had the gearbox (Caterham 6 speed) refreshed and upgraded to the latest spec (required to take the power and torque). The Raceline dry sump is great and simple to plumb. I shortened the passenger footwell as that is where I put the dry sump tank - you could buy the (expensive) Caterham one that fits in front of the engine but that's a lot of weight to put up front and makes access around the belts difficult.

All I had to do was bolt the engine in and sort the plumbing and wiring.

The engine was a high specification using Ultimate Performance ported head with 1mm oversize valves, Raceline RLD300 cams, Raceline (Jenvey) 48mm DTHTBs and a Raceco exhaust system. It produced 258bhp on the rollers which is a little under what I expected. Perhaps a less aggressive cam profile would have been better.

If you want the ultimate engine (300bhp+) then the SBD kit would probably be a good bet but you'll need to get someone to build the engine for you as SBD only supply it as a kit of parts.

On track it is noticeably quicker than my old 235bhp K series.

[Rob Walker]

Be clear and read Catastrads's post again ,the compact bell housing and the short bell housing are quite different. The compact is designed to run with a 7.5" flywheel and mates perfectly with the Raceline Dry sump pan. This means there is no 40mm step between the end of the sump pan and the leading edge of the bell housing . You also need a special starter motor that runs a large pinion . You also need the special 7.5" flywheel and clutch kit and the flywheel is quite heavy. I see no need to shorten the passenger footwell with either bell housing unless you wish to site the Dry sump Tank there. I can also confirm that it is necessary to shorten the input shaft both the splines and the overhaul length on the 6sp Caterham gbox with both the compact and short bell housing. If you opt for the short bell housing to mate with the Raceline Dry sump pan you will have to find some way of filling the 40mm gap between the pan and the leading edge of the bell housing, Caterham sell a nasty bit of tube for the job or a better solution is to have a machine shop make you up a bespoke tapered block/skid plate out of solid nylon or PTFE.

 

There has also long been the debate that the Duratec does not need a dry sump as the Raceline wet sump pan is all you need. Well yes this is largely true but be aware that the Raceline dry sump pan with integral oil pump gives you 40mm extra ground clearance at the front of the pan. Also there is substantial windage of the oil within the Wet sump pan this leads to high oil temps, this is more of an issue with the higher tuned engines that will rev to 8500rpm.

 

Lastly I take 300bhp+ from the SBD with a pinch of salt, lets just say its a remarkable result.

 

Rob

 

Edited by - Rob Walker on 9 Jan 2014 11:15:37

[James.S]

Worth a call to Cosworth, they will deal on their crate engines. Paid just under 8k plus vat including loom, ecu and bench run las year. Nor bad for a 280, 2.3l. Made 279 on the Steves rollers.

 

BM me if you want contact details. They also do a 255 2.0l

 

All these on std crank. Their billet one is extra.

 

Edited by - James.S on 9 Jan 2014 11:19:45

[TomGaval]

Thanks guys. Those are all excellent suggestions, your first hand experience is what I was looking for.

 

Any input on the slipper Piston question? Are they worth the extra expense, are they more or less reliable/durable? Anyone use the SBD kit for their project?

 

Tom

[Pendennis]

Been reading this and thought info posted about the compact bell housing and flywheel was incorrect, so I have gone and checked as mine is in bits.

I use the Raceline compact bell housing and associated flywheel it is all mated with their internal type DS kit which is the absolute nuts it has to be said. However, the 8.5" clutch plate and cover fits perfectly and is as supplied by Raceline.

I appreciate the 7.5" clutch kit may also fit but it is wrong to imply the 8.5" doesn't because it does.

Whilst I'm on this case, am I going barking mad because the compact flywheel I have just bought from Chris is definitely 8.5" and it's predecessor was also 8.5"

 

Do they do a 7.5" compact version as well then?

 

[Rob Walker]

The standard piston is virtually a slipper piston i.e. it has very little skirt only on the thrust faces. A pure 2 ringed slipper piston will give you reduced friction due to its lower frictional losses and lower mass but the downside is it has a short life and usually noisy when the engine is cold. So it depends on what you are building and how long you want it to last. If you want NA 300+bhp rev to over 9000rpm and your happy to rebuild every 20 hours could be the way to go.

 

Edited by - Rob Walker on 9 Jan 2014 18:38:57

[Rob Walker]

Ian,

 

If you have a 8.5 inch flywheel then you do not have the compact bell housing as it would not fit inside the compact bell housing. You must have the Raceline short bell housing.

Trust me.

 

Regards

 

Rob

[Pendennis]

Rob I do trust you but I am pretty sure what I have is compact.

 

This is my bellhousing and this is my flywheel

 

Bell housing has flat bottom so flush with ds sump and flywheel has teeth only on one side which needs Powerlite starter motor.

 

So am I m m m mad and do not have the compact version?

 

 

[catastrada]

ian,

 

On the bellhousing page you linked there are 2 different bellhousings and all the confusion comes from there.

They both are short (let´s say the lenght between the engine and the propshaft), one is standard (8.5 flywhell) and one is compact (7.25 flywheel).

 

Edited by - Catastrada on 9 Jan 2014 19:03:44

[Rob Walker]

Hi Ian,

 

I now see how the confusion has arisen. The sizes on Racelines web page are wrong they have the compact flywheel as 8.5" diameter and also as 267.5mm Dia (this is 10.53" ???). You have said that you have the flat bottomed bell housing this is the compact you also run the powerlite start motor and this only marries up to the 7.25" flywheel so I presume Chris has put the wrong sizes on the web page by accident. Make sense & no your not going mad were all mad ?

 

Rob

[TomGaval]

Thanks Rob. While I'm looking for a nice power level to play with the big hp cars on the straights, I don't want to be rebuilding the motor every season.

 

As for the bellhousing options, Did you say they Both require a shortening of the input shaft or just the Compact/narrower one???

 

Just trying to learn as much as I can before I jump in. It might be actually cheaper to Sell my car as is and to buy a used R500 that's already set up and use my bargain motor as a spare.

 

Tom

 

Edited by - TomGaval on 9 Jan 2014 19:22:39

[Rob Walker]

Tom,

You only have to shorten the input shaft if you want to use either the short standard Dia bell housing or the short Raceline compact. if you opt for the standard length bell housing that Caterham use there is no need to shorten or use the special engine mounts.

 

Some of use use the short bell housing as it moves the engine back in the chassis approx 20mm for better weigh distribution and because we can 😬

 

 

 

Edited by - Rob Walker on 10 Jan 2014 07:55:54

[Pendennis]

Rob, sorry to harp on about this but I have measured everything myself and those dims are correct, my clutch plate is 8.5" OD flywheel is deffo 8.5"

 

They must do a 7.5" version as well

[Shaun_E]

Ian - I'm with you . I wasn't going to argue with Rob as he's usually correct 😶‍🌫️ but my understanding is that the "compact" bellhousing is also "short" but that it uses a special 8.5" flywheel with the teeth cut in the back of it hence the need for the unique starter motor.

I've got exactly the set-up you describe.

[Pendennis]

Just measured compact flywheel it is 10.53" (267mm). So it is a 8.5" arrangement.

 

Rob your not the first person to state it's 7.5" and that is why I wonder if there is a 7.5" flywheel available?

 

Castrada, I think I can see all your confusion now. The flywheel is 8.5" which can take a 8.5" or 7.25" clutch set up, but it does appear there is not a 7.5" or 7.25" flywheel available, just clutch

 

Edited by - Pendennis on 9 Jan 2014 21:02:16

[Rob Walker]

Hi Ian,

 

Sorry I had also got confused, you are indeed correct the compact flywheel is 267mm and can run with 8.5 and 7.25 clutches . I have just measured a standard race line flywheel it 288mm Dia and runs a 8.5" clutch.

 

I am advised that the compact bell housing is available in both long and short length

 

My head hurts I off for a rest chaps.

 

Edited by - Rob Walker on 9 Jan 2014 22:40:17

[TomGaval]

Boy am I glad I asked. 😬

 

Thanks again guys. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I mover ahead with the project.

 

I'm still a bit confused about the Dry sump internal vs external option. Raceline internal vs SBD external. Do they both meet the oil supply needs of a 250+ hp motor?

 

Tom

[Pendennis]

Phew, thought I was going to have send the boys round 😬

 

Have to agree though, it's heavy at 5kg which suspect is due to ring gear arrangement

[Pendennis]

Tom I race with this setup on slicks since it came out, your be fine oh and I have more power than that

 

Ask yourself Why do you want a second oil pump that increases the failure rate and also why you want an externally belt driven pump that could and has known to fail, especially if you visit the gravel

 

Loads of advantages and not many disadvantages