bstark Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Surely there must be some way to get them to cope I've spent more on the axle on my car than any other bit of it over the years and it now has decent halfshafts (glued to bearings, and no bearing movement issues since) a Quaife ATB and Jigsaw CW&P in it. Axle is overfilled by jacking up the rear. It was fine when I was just sprinting it, and absolutely silent on the road for 2 years. First trackday I do (Brands yesterday - and very slippery, so not even flat out in the bendy bits) and the axle starts complaining after 5 laps or so. By the time I leave the circuit it sounds like a straight cut gearbox. It also did this the last time I was at Brands which is why I went down the Jigsaw route, but I can't afford to do this every trackday. I'm assuming its an oil surge or oil temp issue or both. I'm just fed up with it now, though, as being able to go for it on the track is a big part of owning the car. The rest of the car is great so I don't want to think about selling it. So... what can be done that will actually work, and stay working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 For oil surge, did you baffle the axle ? i also think that glueing the bearing is not the best option, you are better to shim it. did you rebuild your axle yourself ? if so did u use a collapsable bush on the pinion ? this should also be solid as it was designed for. i had a ex Academy X-flow and the axle is fine for the 4 years it's doing track days on Toyo R 888, it's the engine ho suffers more from oil surge. It had 110bhp but has now 160 since the new year and the axle is still fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 The axle was done by 7 Indulgence, and the ATB and CW&P fitted by R+R. Don't know if it is baffled. The engine now has some pretty fancy breather pipework and a big wing sump and seems fine on track (touch wood). The axle used to be fine when I first started doing trackdays, but since doing a couple of seasons sprinting I now corner faster so I guess it was marginal previously. The power isn't the issue, nor is bearing movement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezky Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Ford Axle required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Q102 - just so I know, why is the Ford axle any less prone to oil surge issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezky Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Standard Ford English Axle is internally baffled . Baffles have to be welded into the Ital axle. Without out the baffle plates it would not make any difference how much oil was in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hi all, English axles suffer exactly the same as surge as Ital axles. Ital axles as standard do have some minimal baffling very similar to English axles, there is no advantage in an standard english axle over a standard ital axle as far as oil surge is concerned. Ital axles with standard baffles over filled with oil (2 litres) should stand serious track use with sticky tyres (ACB 10's). Are you sure the oil level was right? When I build Ital axles I drill and tap the breather hole in the top to a bigger dia. This aids when filling the axle. The proceedure is fill through the breather until it runs out of the fill whole in the back, approx 1.3 litres, then replace the rear plug and add at least 0.7 litres on top. This is with no extra baffling! What this effectively does is fill the axle with oil to just under the level of the half shafts to the full width of the axle. as the oil surges to one side the oil from the opposite tube fills the diff area. On some later Ital axles supplied by caterham there is a second filler plug in the back plate higher up. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Hi Chris, Thanks for the info . Pretty sure the axle was overfilled by jacking up the rear and using the normal filler. I very much doubt there was an additional 2 litres in there. Any idea how much higher up the second filler is positioned? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Bob, I have just looked at my build notes (previous info slightly wrong, memory and age! don't go well together), oil capacity from empty to the standard fill hole is approx 1.15 litres I then fill to a total of 2 litres, so an extra 0.85 litres. I don't have any measurement for the higher fill hole on some axles but at a guest 25/30mm higher. Another way to get the extra oil in but it is a bit of a pain is with the axle level take out one of the half shafts and hub and fill until the oil runs out of the oil seal that seals the shaft. from memory this will be approx 2 litres. I also agree with Elie, i'm not sure I would trust the bearings being glued. I always shim them. The one big no no for ital axles and track work is kerb jumping. They don't like the repeated tangential shock load. Easy fix though, keep off the kerbs Cheers Chris Edited by - Revin Kevin on 20 Aug 2011 10:51:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Cheers Chris Out of interest, someone at Brands mentioned fitting an oil cooler to the axle - is this overkill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Bob I've never fitted an oil cooler to the diff on a caterham and have never heard of over heating the oil on an ital but to be honest I've never measured the temperatures either. I would imagine it would be complete over kill unless you were thinking of some type of endurance racing. If you do you will need to pump the oil with an electric pump. Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Ok, good stuff. Sounds like it should be fairly simple to make it last then. Cheers for the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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