Blackbird refresh/tuning questions

[neilg]

Looking for a modicum of opinion on my Blackbird from anyone in the know.

 

My present engine ( standard 165 bhp carbs) has been thrashed remorselessly for a year and a half now with no problems at all and all with the standard gearbox. I've done i suppose ten trackdays so perhaps 800 laps maybe, who knows, and about 6000 road miles. Same clutch as well so i think i've done all right with it to be honest and it's a credit to it's previous owner who sorted a few issues with it.

 

Anyway what shall i do to it now. It surely must need a refresh by now even though it still makes good oil pressure .

On a refresh on bike engines what do engine builders do. I presume new shells, rings, hone bores and relap valves. What else??

 

I have a spare engine in my garage and a Nova gearbox to install which requires the engine bottom end to be stripped down .

 

Or i could send it to Holeshot Racing and they could do this Stage three conversion here and get 30 or so extra horses.

 

Has anyone any experience of Holeshot or big bore conversions on bike engines. Is it worth the expense? What is a 200 bhp bike engine like.?

 

Alternatively i could run it till it explodes, do a standard refresh, or maybe just do a head job ( phanaar 😬) with cams.

 

Any suggestions oh learned ones.

 

PS i have or access to one good standard engine in Caterham, one good standard spare engine, one blown up standard engine and one 1.2 big bore blown up engine with three good pistons. Loads of bits in fact.

 

PPS I also like the idea of removing the balancer shafts which share an oilway with No 3 piston big end ( the one that always picks up , breaking No 3 piston conrod!)

 

So many decisions.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks in advance. Neil

 

 

 

I

[timbo]

 

Simples.. chuck out the bird and fit a busa

 

I'm bringing the busa out to 1400cc at the moment. Will let you know of the improvements. I'm doing the engine work. Jack (Holeshot) is supplying me the block, cams, pistons. (he's 3 miles from me)

 

1400cc busa... that's a nice round number

[bluenose]

Neil

 

For me personally I just like my engine standard. I like the fact that the Blackbird is a car with a consumable engine that can be easily swopped with another from ebay for Lava Orange Caterham Blackbird

 

[andrewmorpeth]

Ive got a hayabusa in mine.If the oil pressures ok i would be tempted to change the oil and leave it alone.Dont forget thrashing is what the thing is designed for in a sports bike.Get a compression tester and check compressions.If all seems ok put your feet up and watch the telly.An engine strip and rebuild from someone is going to cost the same as a 2nd hand engine.

[neilg]

Love a busa but £££££££££££ and i would have to change everything.

Nick, agree with you about standard engine 100% . Mine has been brilliant , uses no oil and is still intact despite a few missed changes and 12000 rpm blips!! Bought my spare engine for £500-00 for emergencies and haven't used it yet.

 

I'm thinking now though that some preventative refreshery is in order before the inevitable happens.

 

I had ago at stripping down MINGS old blown up engine yesterday evening and the engineering quality of everything is brilliant. My theory is to learn on the old blown up engine and then have a go at my good one in the car. The Nova box is going in whatever with uprated clutch springs.

 

Have ordered some Nitrons/springs from Freestyle and eagerly await...

[bluenose]

Neil

 

I have my old engine that has a stripped 4th gear but is otherwise OK. I now have a spare gearset and would be interested in how I go about replacing it. I assume the crankcase has to be split but it looks complicated, with the need to remove the clutch basket. The previous owner of the gearset broke the clutch basket trying to undo the nut holding it on so I am a bit worried about tackling the job.

 

Nick

 

 

Lava Orange Caterham Blackbird

 

[bluenose]

Neil

 

Forgot to ask, what settings have you gone for on the Nitrons? And if you have any photos of the stripped engine then I would be interested in seeing them.

 

Lava Orange Caterham Blackbird

 

[neilg]

Nick, MINGs engine was already split when i got it and he had the gears out. However it can't be such a difficult job because my mate BYKER WILL did it and he has the mechanical nowse of a large ant!! 😬 ( Sorry Will 😬)

Seriously i think it's a case of getting the Haynes manual for the Blackbird and following it through. There are a couple of issues to be aware of but Will sorted it first time. Either that or he is a mechanical god

 

It's always fourth gear that goes by the way.

 

Mine hasn't yet but i bought MINGS Nova gearset cos i know it's only a matter of time.

 

I can't give you any details yet of Nitrons and springs as Gary at Freestyle hasn't yet rang me to say they have arrived after ordering them in the summer. He orders them in a batch and they have to be made to order apparently. I ought to give him a ring .

 

I'll take some photos and send you them.

 

Neil .

 

 

 

Edited by - neilg on 16 Dec 2009 22:11:36

[BYKer Will]

Neil You know the answer is a rotrex blower mate.

 

Nick I did indeed swap a good set of gears from one engine to the other and it wasn't too difficult and even easier the second time when I dropped a nut into the crankcase as I was attaching the oil pick up pipe.

 

Neil kindly sent me copies from the haynes for the strip down but not the putting it back together ones but it was OK.

 

Having said the above I don't think I could manage installing the nova cogs unless they are already on the shafts as that looks very fiddly so if you are planning to just change 4th gear it will be trickier but perhaps OK given time and space plus a nice warm workshop.

 

As an idea I think from speaking to graham at Nova he might be tempted to do the install if you bought new gears from him.

 

I do think the nova box is the way to go. My car went through 2 fourth gears in 2 years and I suspect plenty more before that. I gather the new owner has had a nova install at Mistral.

 

Somewhere I have a test article in EVO of the 1200 super blackbird with the nova box and it really gets a good write up. Wish I had had one fitted first time I lost 4th.

 

Best wishes

 

Will

 

PS edited to say get a rechargeable impact gun thingy as it will undo that clutch basket and the dozens of other long bolts in a flash. Or put a nice k series in it 😬 (fickle me !)

 

Edited by - BYKer Will on 17 Dec 2009 00:02:00

[robmar]

re a 200bhp bec 😬 😬 😬 but it is a 1400 Busa

 

Nitrons - on my busa I have the standard valving and run 130 fronts and 200 rears springs seems to work ok

[Richard Price]

Nitrons - on my busa I have the standard valving and run 130 fronts and 200 rears springs seems to work ok

 

Rob, are you sure about those spring rates? They sound very soft at the front, and very hard at the rear.

Now is you had 200 front and 130 rear, that would sound far more sensible.....

[neilg]

Compression tester, yep , good idea. I'll do one and post on here to see what you think.

You see the thing is the engine has to come out of the car and be split to do the Nova box so i am looking to try and refresh or improve at the same time as i don't want to do Nova box and then have to take engine out again in a hurry.

 

What are typical bike compression figures then. How much psi should we have.

 

Cheers Neil

[robmar]

Richard - oops you are right wrong way round 😳

 

200 fronts and 130 rears

 

Rob