Area Representative paul richards Posted September 23, 2007 Area Representative Share Posted September 23, 2007 Removed engine and gearbox today (not my car) to find that the spigot bearing had completely disintegrated and welded itself to the gearbox input shaft. - 1.8K and type 9, 5 speed box. Obviously need new spigot and sleeve and will renew clutch, clutch cable and clutch release bearing whilst we're at it. Problem is with the damage to the gearbox input shaft:- 1. Can I get away with dressing the shaft using a grinder/file/emery cloth? 2. Would it would be better to remove the input shaft and stick it in a lathe to repair it. If so how much of a job is it to remove the shaft. So far I've just removed the CRB guide sleeve. 3. How much play should there be on the input shaft. There seems to be quite a bit, but if I recall correctly this is normal. Or is it? Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) www.lads7.co.uk - now updated Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 If the bearing has welded itself to the input shaft and it has turned blue then there is a possibilty that the shaft has been weakened due to the original hardning process and could cause it to fail. If the damage has blued the shaft then rather than pay someone to machine it back true again is hardly worth it so better to renew with another shaft, either new or second hand. How are you measuring play? by gripping it in the box and wiggling it? if so then yes about an 1" of movement ant the end of the shaft. Also inspect the crank for any damage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Agree with Peter It is interesting as to the reason for the failure IMHO it is usually but not always caused by a person who sits a lot at traffic lights in gear but with clutch depressed OR by someone who revs a lot to 5000 + and then dumps the clutch. In normal usage the first motio shaft and crank spend a reasonably short time at different speeds and the bearing takes little wear It has to be remembered that originally most spigot bearings where Phosphor bronze [self lubricating] Recent Caterham ones are fine needle rollers and don't [again IMHO] take the same abuse. Donutters beware. jj N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻 Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 to remove the input shaft you will have to strip the gearbox down ~ £150 + for a specialist, then £140 for a shaft + £xx for consumables. The bush only supports the nose of the input shaft - not load bearing as such (excuse the pun) . I would try my best to remove with care - the shaft is bloody hard (my machine shop had to get a special tool in to cut it, so the bush should remove - I had to remove 13mm from the teeth for the short input shaft length on the duratec, You may also have issues to attend to in the crank 🤔 here is C7 TOP Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I have a shaft here from my K series if you need a replacement. here is C7 TOP Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Paul Bit of a pain to say the least.......... Which CRB was it 🤔 who revs a lot to 5000 + and then dumps the clutch Sounds like me or sprints 😬 Silpping off subject a tad The old style were fine with that but I still well down on the max power then but its where the flywheel BHP and torque match at about 125 not that is the main reason, it just works well between 4500 and 5200 New style well the only problem I had, in the few miles it did, was it fell off the arm whilst adjusting it If anyone wants one I have one new and one having done 200 miles 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted September 23, 2007 Author Area Representative Share Posted September 23, 2007 Peter T Thanks for your prompt reply. No its not turned blue. I don't think the strength of the shaft will be compromised - it is very hard material. Yes - the play in the shaft is as you describe. When the end of the shaft is suppoorted there is no play on the bearing and it turns v. smoothly. I'm therefore thinking the bearings are fine. Johnty You're right of course. The spigot bearing is only a very small thing and as such obviously doesn't take big loads. It's only in use when the clutch is depressed - hence I concur with your thoughts that sitting at lights with the clutch depressed is probably one of the causes. Dave I think I might tackle dismantling the gearbox myself to remove the shaft - I could just do with the correct workshop manual. I anticipate the shaft cleaning up reasonably. As you say the shaft should be much harder than the 'foreign' material. Thanks for the offer - I'll be in touch if I need the second hand shaft. Bilbo Not sure which CRB it is, although it's probably original and been in the car for 7 years and to be fair still appears good and doesn't appear to have contributed to the failure. I always change the CRB as a matter of course when I have engine and gearbox apart and CRB is getting on. Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) www.lads7.co.uk - now updated Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I think I might tackle dismantling the gearbox myself to remove the shaft - I could just do with the correct workshop manual. People on here have .pdf covering what you need . . . I don't, but I'll ask a couple of people who do/did to see if they can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted September 23, 2007 Author Area Representative Share Posted September 23, 2007 Cheers Adam - that would help. Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) www.lads7.co.uk - now updated Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I keep a back-up my Caterham stuff here and if you happened to have a peek you might find something of use 😬 Dubai Duratec SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted September 24, 2007 Author Area Representative Share Posted September 24, 2007 Dobuy Thanks for your effort, but I can't download type 9 file it says 'file is broken and can't be repaired'. I can download K series manual with no problem. Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) www.lads7.co.uk - now updated Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Sorry, just checked, it is mucked up, will re-upload, check back in 30 minutes Edited by - Dobuy on 24 Sep 2007 20:05:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 OK, just checked it, PDF file is now OK for download Dubai Duratec SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted September 25, 2007 Author Area Representative Share Posted September 25, 2007 Download successful. *thumbup* *thumbup* Thanks Dobuy Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) www.lads7.co.uk - now updated Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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