Tyre and Wheel Sizes

[Davey Bee]

Sadly it looks like I will have to go and play else where, I have spent a lot of time and a little money developing my car so that I could see what the potential of road going Vauxhall Se7en could be. I have no real ambitions of being club champion but I would like to do as much as I and the car combination are capable of, unfortunately this will not be possible because of the new rule changes. As it not occurred to all, that the guys that run in class 5 have already committed a large amount of money to their cars and a set of tires makes little or no difference. If you want to enter the championship for little out lay then the chances are that you have not done any mod's to your car, at which point class 1,2, or 3 is for you and a control on tires is a good thing. For the rest of us please let us play we generally have more money than sense or a wife that don't check the bank balance. £500 for a set of ACB10 or any other tyre that is the flavor of the month will not keep us away from the next meeting,(after all how would we show off our latest most have).

Class 5 has, as far as I can tell a highly developed BDA, R400. VX 2.3, a number of Bussa's and a fair number of Zetec's, are any of these cars standard or cheap to develop? .... if not why are we trying to cut the price of their tires.

 

R600 VX here

[Jason Plato]

I'm not happy with any of the changes - I think its too much change at once in every aspect. But with regard to the tyres If we are delisting crossplies ( for which it sounds like there is no further discussion on and the decision is made) , then then next half sensible move would be to limit tyre width . I will have a scrap set of ACB's with 4mm tread an I will have to change the rim widths on my wheels and chnage the dedion ears and buy another set of sprint tyres if I compete next year . That lot is inexcess of £1200 .......all to go slower ☹️.

 

I now appreciate what you are saying dave N re 205 vs Kumho in 215 for 15 " wheels. On that basis then I woudl agree with the 215 mm cut off point .

 

And then we will all go and buy 215 section Kumhos in supersoft .......so we are back to where we started ..... ☹️

 

Simon the radial tyre choice would be broad with Yoko, Toyo, Dunlop, Avon, kumho and I dare say a few other options and they are all within a £15 bracket of each other on price . I just paid £59 for R888's in 185 whcih I shall give a damn good thrashing around Slitherstone GP tomorrow

 

 

 

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[Grahame W]

Dave J, to help those of us out who are guessing with your real world experience, AND to try to put this current thread into perspective would you care to comment on whether all the varieties of radial options discussed here would have a smaller time differential between them, than the ACB10 to radial time differential.

 

If smaller then the reg changes will have achieved what seemed to be wanted ie road usable, more accessible closer competition, if not then the only real gain has been to remove the need for different supension set ups and the tyres/rims expenditure will continue for the more competitive as it always has done

[Jason Plato]

Excluding Supersoft Kumhos which are pretty much on pace with a ACB 10 A24 , I would honestly say that R888, Soft 48 and Supersoft 32 and CR500's are all within a few tenths. Its realy as level a playing field as you can practically manage without getting all micro management of tyre regs . ACB's in A24 compound will be a few seconds faster on some courses but *only* if the driver is capable of using the extra grip - ofthen something that the novice drivers dont appreciate. it took me a season to get used to the extra spped I could carry into the corner when I changed from 32R's to ACB's .

 

The front runners will still be the front runners, a handfull of drivers will have "special" sprint tyres which they keep for sprints only to prevent them going hard and jo bloggs will have plenty of competition on "regular" "sticky" tyres an drive home or go and do a trackday the next day

 

I strongly support the "max 215 section" "other sizes at Comp sec's discretion (to allow CSR's in on 235 rears)

 

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[Grahame W]

Dave thanks for the input, fully accept your comments about driver talent and agree with your support for the proposed change.

 

I think this gives us all of the following

 

ACB10 guys will get to go almost as fast as this year

At least we don't add insult to injury of ACB10 runners by forcing them to buy new rims (assuming 215*13 rear kumho option is allowed)

Even the stickiest tyre is tolerably road usable

Most newcomers can use existing rims

Newcomers can upgrade to a stickier tyre when talent/budget/competitiveness allows

The suspension changes hurdle is removed (I'm sure there will soon be new subleties in set up but thats competition)

 

That all strikes me as a pretty good compromise

[Simon.Rogers1]

Dave hope you have a good time on the limiter at Siverstone

 

Thanks for taking my point on the 215 section cos the way I see it if the Kumho was the stickyest by far then all us class 5 guys would be bying 15" rims to put 205 section Ecstas on. More cost.

 

Alternatively ban Kumho's.

 

But I'm sure another soft tyre will be arround later. So.

 

As I think we have all come to some sort of conclusion.

 

Any Radial 1a or b up to 215 section.

[CageyH]

If the Kuhmo's are a bit harder than the ACB10's, but softer than anything else, you may as well give 12 months grace for the ACB10 users, so they can save their pennies for new wheels, or use slightly harder tyres next year. This will allow them to use the tyres they have already forthis year, and minimise cost.

 

The only thing that seem to be happening is that people now trawl for the next softest tyre...

How about 12 months notice of the intention of a control tyre.

 

Only dead fish go with the flow....

[david nelson]

DJ said

 

I strongly support the "max 215 section" "other sizes at Comp sec's discretion (to allow CSR's in on 235 rears)

 

Simon said

 

As I think we have all come to some sort of conclusion.

 

I said

 

*thumbup*

 

 

David

[Jason Plato]

It would be ironic if we went faster on Kumhos 😬

 

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[Davey Bee]

If the rule is going to be 215 max then there is little point in me playing. I'm one Vx driver that's not into spinning wheels. Sad as I was looking forward to a full season next year. So the theory of the changes making it more inclusive for more members has failed by one.

To be frank I feel that these rule rule changes have been ill thought out and their execution scandalous. I fail to see how (apart from in the interest of safety) rules can be changed overnight with no interim period for adjustment. Max Moseley this is how it's done.

 

R600 VX here

[Grahame W]

Having been keen on the limitation to radials only (based on road use and suspensiion set up NOT the stickiness of ACB 10's) I have to agree with CageyH that if the difference between ACB's and kumhos really is so close then maybe the idea of a 1 year period of grace is not so bad after all. I clearly wrongly assumed last year that SS 032's represented the best radial option, should have asked those in the know.

 

[Mark Durrant]

On taking account the comments made on this thread what are your views on the following:

 

Front Maximum wheel width 7"

Maximum tyre width 205

 

Rear Maximum wheel width 8.5"

Maximum tyre width 215

 

CSR's as per Caterham spec (I will check and post these in due course).

 

These restrictions would apply to classes 1-5 only.

 

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[Jason Plato]

so a years grace is not an option or for further discussion 🤔

 

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[Tony Abbatiello]

I can see why a limit of 215 is set on tyre width and I fully support this as a rule, but why try to limit rim width? A 215 will only work on certain widths and if people want to run wider rims with a 215 section tyre then what difference would it make? I run my kumhos on 8.75" and 7.5" wheels (215 and 175 tyre widths), I Can't see and reason for reducing the rim width, It won't make me go any faster or slower it just adds cost.

 

I am also supprised that we would want to limit the width of the front tyre to 205. Why not leave it at 215 all round?

 

[neil.cavanagh]

DaveyB,

Which class HAD you been planning on running in and on which tyres?? I'm guessing class 5, in which case the only change is you can't run ACB-10s anymore, and we are proposing to limit tyre widths to 215. I can't see how this would single your car out as un-competitive. Maybe you'll need to buy some new wheels and tyres, but this can be done fairly inexpensively (compared to the overall cost of a caterham) if you buy 2nd hand, and sell on your existing tyres.

 

I also think your wording is a little strong. The rule changes were made in full consultation with people at the tech forum, and based on opinions posted on here.

[Jason Plato]

I'm done with this.

 

I'm out too ......

 

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[Dannyboy]

This is getting ridiculous.

 

If this carries on then yet another motorsport series will disappear into oblivion.

 

The decisions made were made by competitors in the championship, the tech forum was OPEN to all!! The decisions made were there to ENCOURAGE others into the championship, not to cater to the whims of the minority of us who do compete. No disrespect ro DaveyB who I have met briefly at Curborough, but why not enter in class 6? Also, he, and many others have competed very sporadically. We're trying to encourage greater numbers in classes 4 & 5 which have been very poorly attended this year. The decisions made at the tec forum were made, and agreed on for the good of the championship, not the good of the minority!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't several series x-plys from the List 1b options?previously

 

Dannyboy

 

 

Edited by - Dannyboy on 27 Nov 2006 15:19:49

[robmar]

Danny - am sure you mean x-plys

 

rob

[Shaun_E]

*thumbup* for maximum 215 radials all round, but no restriction seems necessary on rim width.

 

Yellow SL #32

 

Edited by - Shaun_E on 27 Nov 2006 15:12:36

[Don]

Well said Danny!! 😬

 

I think the decision has been made for the greater good too.

[robmar]

I hope those regular ( and not so regular competitors) who are thinking of not competing next year due to the rule changes reconsider as the series is all about being inclusive as possible, not just for new entrants but also seasoned competitors alike.

 

However if you do not compete next year I hope

 

1. we see you in the paddock at some events, and maybe competinng at the odd event where our paths cross

2. we see you back in 2008

3. good luck in any other championships you may enter, and hope you keep us all informed of your progress

 

Rob

[david nelson]

Is it time to close this thread?

 

 

David

[Martin S.]

I'm happy with max 215's 1b's

 

This would give a decent tyre choice but would prevent the expence going really silly with superwide rubber/extended wings etc

 

Rim diameter should be anything goes.

No point in limiting rim width.

 

 

[Mark Durrant]

OK having taken account of the views expressed here I propose the Classes 1-5 are limited to a maximum tyre treadth width of 215 apart from CSR's which are as per factory spec. Wheel widths are unrestricted.

 

I realise that there are a number of you who are disappointed with the changes to the regs however, this was discussed at length at the Tech Forum and voted on by all those prresent. It was a decision taken by all not just me and reflected the desire to make sprinting attractive to more members of the club irrespective of what model car they own. The vote was overwhelmingly in favour of the changes and even if those who have posted here had attended and voted against it would still have been carried.

 

I would ask those who have stated here that they do not intend to compete next year to reconsider and there is always Class 6 if you do not want to replace your ACB10's.

 

 

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[Jason Plato]

Rob ,

 

Rob as a constructive response - Its not the rule changes as a whole, but the method of implimentation and the costs that are being incurred unnecesaraly by present supporters of the championship that has agrieved many - the championship was by no means on its last legs so why the radical changes in such short timespan ?.Neil posts that the changes of wheels and tyres "can be done fairly inexpensively" - I wouldnt call £1200 inexpensive !.

 

The method of disucssion when not all could attend the awards and the assumption or impression given out by many that the regulations are determined, despite their being some significant issues in their implimentation with regards to the lack of enforceability of class structure that will result in competitors complaining and having suspicions about others if they post quick times. Plus the points systems to be determined/published to those that were not at the awards , that wont be based upon records as a result of the radical changes.

 

I'm fully in support of getting more sprinters involved, I've brought people along personally each year, presented "novice drive for free" awards at events I've organised and written articles for LF to try and promote the championship over the past 5 years so I do understand the goal and I support the point of making the championship more open to other engines, but I dunno how much wine you guys drank the other Sunday to come up with such radical changes overnight....

 

And please note this is not a dig at any body so lets not let it degrade into a slanging match - Closing the thread will simply prevent any further discussion on these issues, it wont resolve them in my opinion.

 

I'm off now to build a duranail ..... see you at the Llandow preseason shakedown in March ( if your still talking to me)

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

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