LazerBrain Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Following on from Pierre's post here where his mate made up boards of leds to fit in his rear light clusters, I'm wondering on the legality of doing this in the UK. I want to keep the classic caravan look of the rear of the car so I'm not really interested in other shaped led lights that are already out there. What I'm after are some decent rear led lights that won't get me into trouble with the BiB or the MOT man! I think that the only law applying to lighting is The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, which predates led lights on cars (afaik.) It was updated in 1994, but I'm struggling to get anything useful out of it. ☹️ However I know that there are certain standards (E-marked bulbs) that have to be adhered to and I'm pretty sure a collection of leds in a light cluster isn't going to cut it! I have found some right angle led pods here that would probably work in the existing light clusters, but they're from the US so won't be E-marked. cheers, Darren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 what you might find also is that any LEDs you plug into the indicators don't pull enough current to trip the flasher unit . . . The main legal problem you may have is that the lights aren't designed for LEDs - so probably fail on construction and use - the LEDs won't use the reflector in the lamp either, so total light output might be less. Topical subject for me - trying to use high power LEDs (IR) in a top secret application for work - some of the LEDs coming out now are seriously powerful - anyone for LED streetlights? - already being installed in some places. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noddy Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Darren, I agree that keeping the classic look is important but getting LED brightness is a good thing. I wonder is a company like SVC would make some if we got enough numbers? any lighting experts out there 🤔 R400 BYEeeeeeeee .......... I love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DohNut Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Technically they will not be legal for the reasons stated - they do not have an E mark and they do not draw the appropriate current. However correctly designed they will be more clearly seen and more reliable I am happy to accept a minor technical infringement for increased visibility. The US clusters are pretty big - I was not confident that they would fit due to their depth you would have to end the bracket to get them in so the LED would pointing in at 15 degrees or so. - I would be interested in seeing them though Aha (as in not the band) scroll down a bit and you get this - a square of pcb packed with LED and an 1157 connecter on the end ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1157-PCB-R36 Red LED lamp 12VDC 1157 Base (dual intensity) with 1-1/2 square LED cluster 36 Red LED lamp designed for restricted access and right angle applications Select Narrow 15 degree or Wide 100 degree Beam Pattern $ 9.95 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerBrain Posted November 3, 2006 Author Share Posted November 3, 2006 Good points guys. Bri - indeed, I should have mentioned that I'd be replacing the flasher unit with a led-friendly one. Noddy - I hadn't thought of SVC custom making stuff. I know they have some round led lamps and rectangular housings for kit cars. Doh!Nut - hmmm - they could be the answer. Wonder how they could be mounted & waterproofed behind the lenses? cheers, Darren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I have been rather surprised to find that the straightforward conversion of the caravan lights made for me by JeanEd into LEDs is very satisfactory : it is not anymore the look of a kind of a candle floating on water in a glass , but an even distribution of light into the full volume. The LEDs by themselves do not appear to be brighter than the original lamps, but rather the light is better distributed on a larger surface if you understand what I mean 😳.They keep their brightness even if you are not just in front of them, better than those on a Golf VW . The brake stops are less powerful than the race rain light (DT) I am using as a third stop light. With regard to reliability, no problem so far. I just spread some silicon grease on the back of the boards, but some thermal glue could have been used. The boards are mounted on bushes made of a sandwich of silicon and 2 ali plates (my friend JeanEd used plain wood but I wanted some dumping effect and did not care for the Morgan look ). Three holes are drilled at the botton of the caravan light to drain the water if any). I am not sure either that they are legal in France...but the E mark is still there on the caravan light Edited by - Pierre Gillet on 5 Nov 2006 11:16:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Pierre, et c'est quoi, ton 'bleme avec l'eclairage facon "bougie flottant dans un verre d'eau"? On parle de notre patrimoine ici, bordel! In fact I like your solution and I'm sure it would be very straightforward if not exactly legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Mille excuses, mon cher 😳 Hope I have not been too rude with regard to the British pride One can see the difference LEDs (up) Vs incandescent bulbs (down) here PS: For those interested but reluctent to do the job as I was, JeanEd would be ready to supply the four boards equipped with LEDS and resistors. In fact, I understand from what he told me that he would welcome a bulk buy. Pierre Edited by - Pierre Gillet on 5 Nov 2006 17:37:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 So..........the question which really needs answering is........ does this mod reduce weight or add more power 😬 Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I have been tempted to make up my own LED units (not that difficult with a suitable PCB) however, I think that were you to have an insurance claim and the loss-adjuster spotted the LED lights they would have the perfect 'out' and refuse to cough up. I have noticed that some recent Jags have LED light units so It must be possible to get the things to conform but I guess you have to build the whole light unit around the use of LEDs and have the units go through the type approval tests to make them legal. Colin Edited by - Colin Mill on 5 Nov 2006 17:48:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Pierre, from viewing your video the intensity of the side lamp appears to match the conventional lamp output. However, I would say that the stop and indicator lamps are not as bright. Just my impression form the video. What it doesn't indicate, and maybe something you ought to consider, is the output from a variety of viewing angles. As has previously been stated, technically the E-approval of the lamp is not with LED lamps so they are unlikely to be legal for road use. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Surprinsigly enough the LEDs on my car can be seen very satisfactorily from the side. At least as well as those of the multi-million R&D budget modern cars The designers of the caravan light cluster must have been in advance for their time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerBrain Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share Posted November 5, 2006 Simon - it adds "light"- ness of course. 😬 Ian, Colin - The E-approval bit is the key. As stated it's only valid if the lenses and bulbs/leds are approved for use together. It's the whole insurance/plod thing that stops me from fitting led lights at the moment. Pierre - nice idea to video the pair together for comparison. cheers, Darren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 The change in efficiency with temperature is one aspect of LEDs that needs to be addressed. Its quite marked and, for a given current they get brighter as the temperature drops. (I found this out while trying to sort out an LED to use in the Cassini-Huygens refractometer which had to operate at about liquid nitrogen temperatures. An ordinary LED with 10mA going through it is unbelievably bright when cooled in liquid nitrogen). I reckon they need a temperature controlled drive current if they are going to be OK all the way from Death valley to Sweden. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Colin - absolutely bang on! If you get too near the higher end of their spec for voltage and current and don't sink enough heat away, they just about run away to destruction. They get hot - more current is able to pass - so they get hotter - more current - hotter . . . etc Not too sure if that will apply to the weedy ones used in cars, but the higher spec ones really do need a proper temp compensated supply. My little project is still on the top secret list - but if you're in Las Vegas next April . . . Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I am sorry to say that I killed a couple of the early (RCA I think) laser diodes because I did not read the data sheet carefully enough to pick up on the current V temp requirements. I have a horrid feeling they were rather expensive at the time as well. The management (SWMBO) will never let me get as far as Las Vegas 😬 but I look forward to finding out what you are doing. Will I be able to use it on a model helicopter? (I ask this about everything!) Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I'm going through the whole of my new project (camper van) replacing every filament bulb with either HID or LED (even the instrument bulbs) You need to have a chat with this guy here Okay there not as trick as your full arrays but for the simplicity its worth a try. My inital reason for doing this was simply to reduce the current draw of the internal lights while I'm camping but as with all things petrol related it got a bit carried away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Moving off track slightly in reply to Colin . . I'll bet a considerable amount of money when it's done, that just about everyone on this forum will benefit from it in a tiny way - remind me in several months . . . As for helicopters - no! Expecially as my electric one is still sat on the shelf next to the replacement main shaft I bought for it over a year ago. . . Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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