zak Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Loose question as after flicking through the history I think I know the answer is YES. Situation - long, pacy drive back from Lyon region of France Sunday evening. Upon hitting the M20 up from Dover (still got Autoroute fever 😬 ) whipping along at excessive speed with an ST170 and an S3. Started to notice an increase in oil temp and a correspondingly worrying decrease in oil pressure. OK yes standard gauges and sensors etc so not particularly accurate but the trend it indicated alarmed me. Car is a VVC with an apollo and a radtec rad. Cant recall what degree C thermostat but changed along with different ecu sensor for the fan to cut in much lower previously. Since then cooling has been awesome and on winter blasts even block off bottom half of rad. Is this as WilFly's site describes the effect of sustained high revs whipping up the oil and a result of following other cars on the M20 (rather than free and clear autoroutes) ? Will the laminova fix it - as I plan to do a baby track day end of this month? and frankly cant afford to screw the engine up. ta for any advice. Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWoodham Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 How close were you to the car in front? If you were in any way slipstreaming then there will be a loss of flow through the rad - IIRC Jez did a session on how the airflow reverses through the rad when slipstreaming in race conditions (ie v. close) - ie air going forwards out of the rad. Race cars tend to run with no stat and a manual override switch on the fan for this reason. If this is possible, it might be worth checking the sustained high revs situation when not slipstreaming, you might find there's no problem. A Radtec and lower temp stat should be sufficient for standard bhpI would have thought. Martin Roadsports B with upgradeitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Slightly too much oil can get whipped up by the crank and lead to very high oil temperatures. If the water temperature didn't rise then there's not much wrong with the radiator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 Thanks for coming back to me. What you both say makes sense to me. I didnt think I was THAT close to the cars in front but perhaps the red mist had descended! The fact that I had no such problems on the empty roads of France but only in the UK on the M20 'giving in large' 😬 makes me think you are right. Hell ! I will save my money and do it as a winter upgrade if Father Christmas is kind. Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Zak I have a s/h Laminova available if you decide to go that route Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Before fitting a laminova, I was seeing oil temperatures of 100 degrees and 110 on trackdays. After fitting the laminova I have oil temps at a steady 85 degrees. I have a radtec and 82degree stat. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted September 11, 2006 Area Representative Share Posted September 11, 2006 Not sure. I am about to fit an apollo but talking to an engine builder he said that the Laminova would not help as the water temps were likely to be too high. Do you want the oil to be hotter? The Laminova will not neccesarily cool the oil, it will just get the oil and water to similar temperatures. Oil cooling radiator - possibly, but only for a few days each year, if you are on the road. GJT Crossflow 524 my secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobt Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 > he said that the Laminova would not help as the water temps were likely to be too high I can't see how that can be true. Under normal operating conditions the oil will always be hotter than the coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Zak, I went through this a few years back. After lengthy discussions with a chap whose opinion I trust, I went for the c43-90 unit and a cooler stat. 82 degree I think. For the usa tour last year, I also added a Radtec radiator. Been very happy with the results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 I'd say the benefits were more getting the oil warm faster. If you have a normally filled sump and a decent cooling system then however fast you drove on tyhe road I think your licence would give up LONG before the oil overheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Smith Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I agree with BOSS. Main benefit of Laminova is gets your oil warm faster. I suspect you have an overfilled sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 I think I am guilty of not being very clear over my concerns. What worried me was the rise in OIL temperature (and reduced oil pressure) way above what I normally see on a spirited blat (normal driving 70-80 indicated - blat about 90). I think the laminova has the additional advantage of enhanced warming up time (currently circa 20 mins!). As for the cooling system being able to handle the extra heat - I THINK it will as it seems to have extra capacity and only time will tell. Nose to Tail driving the exception! Also, better have a closer look at the oil level - changed pre France but the oil is almost transparent (does anyone else have difficulty SEEING the level?) Thanks for your help and advice and YES Mark (Hiya!) how much as I am interested? Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted September 12, 2006 Support Team Share Posted September 12, 2006 Oil temperature can rise quite high on a long high speed journey (e.g. motorway) but trackdays will almost certainly cause high oil temperatures. GJT - your engine builder is wrong. Oil temperatures can rise much higher than water temperatures as there is no cooling of the oil as standard - I have seen 115 degrees oil temp on track (Stack dash so fairly accurate). The apollo + laminova + Radtec combination does a very effective job of taming this. The important thing when using an oil/water cooler is that the radiator is up to the job of dumping the extra heat from the oil. A lower rated stat is not really necessary but I'd probably go for an 82 degree one anyway. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 Cheers Shaun Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Not sure this helps. I have a dry sump and an oil cooler. The oil cooler has a stat in line. The temprature never rose to 70c let alone the 80c I want it to be. (It did get to 80c on track) I've moved the oil cooler to be laying on top of the top cross brace (to leave the rad clearer). In theory this shouldn't make any difference as the oil shouldn't be going through the cooler as the stat will not be open. Wrong! the temprature is now a staedy 80c. Gets there after 15-20 minutes and never goes higher. The point about air disturbance by being to close to the car in front is very real. When I leave heavy traffic and water is at 95c it will not go down untill I have a very long gap or no traffic in front. Even at 60mph with M1 type traffic the temp will stay at 95c, leave a long gap and it drops to below 80 (74c stat) Laminova's are designed to transfer heat from water system to oil system for faster oil heat up. In theory it should maintain both at the same temperature. I doubt the second part will work on a thrashed engine. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven to The French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 thrashed engine! Yup, I guess it was. Thanks Norman - whats the latest on your engine cooling bonnet mods? Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 laminovas are used in race cars such as lemans endurance and single seaters and lots of touring cars so they can cope Ok so long as they are specified correctly - providing your cooling system can deal with the heat being dumped into it from the oil system then the 2 systems will ballance OK . I had great results when I used to run a laminova on my 220 bhp K engine and 76C stat on caterham rad. The oil would heat up to 80 C in about 4 miles or 10 mins on the driveway and then would remain +/- 10C of water on road / track / sprint . The downside is that the laminova can back up the flow of the oil system. I had mine on the oil return to the dry sump tank( low pressure side )and the water was from the bypass hose, and I didnt have any problems as far as I knew ( without doing any measurements) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 so in an apollo install is the laminova situated on the low pressure side? return to the tank? Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted September 12, 2006 Support Team Share Posted September 12, 2006 On an Apollo install the Laminova is fitted in the return to the apollo tank. The water side is fitted in the radiator top hose. See here for good instructions (it's under the modifications sections). Yellow SL #32 Edited by - Shaun_E on 12 Sep 2006 11:17:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Definately helped keep my OIL temps DOWN and pressure UP on track, after fitment, and I don't have a problem with temos on either water or oil. (I did have a slight problem on the usa tour, but that was due to a combination of factors, not the apollo / laminiva / radtec set-up. I checked my records, and I have an 82 degree stat fitted in the cooling system. Fitted as Shaun describes. The oil will heat up quicker with the laminova, escpecially when you have an apollo fitted, and it does regulate the temps to within 10 degrees, IME, of the coolant. Thrashing on trackdays sees the oil temp get up to 95 ish (on the caterham guages) and coolant up to 85 ish, so much better than before when I was seeing oil temps OFF THE SCALE at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Zak, not sure, I've had too many other things distracting me. It'll probably not get hot enough this year so I'll have to wait till next summer for 30+ temps. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven to The French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 Mav, Shaun, Norman (I will follow with great interest), Thanks so much. It may/may not be strictly necessary but I think that with upgraditus full blown and a beginners trackday looming end of the month I can justify it to myself! I do the long runs to France and back and then when I get 'enthusiastic' it starts to concern me as it is. Mark, let me know how much your second hand laminova is! 😬 cheers guys for your help and valued advice. *thumbup* *thumbup* Edited to say sorry, forgot to thank Dave Jackson Zak www.zak7.com Edited by - zak on 12 Sep 2006 18:55:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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