McBreadhead Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 OK so the saga continues.......... .......I now have my ECU back from Emerald following a software and firmware upgrade. My RR originally set the car up without being able to communicate with the ECU which I found odd at the time but which I didn't fully appeciate significance of. Result is car bogs down badly at low revs, keeps stalling and has diabolical fuel consumption (sub 20mpg at steady 3500rpm cruise). I now think that doing a RR set up without communication to ECU is missing a fundamental set up parameter but as I don't fully understand the relationship between ECU and the RR tune of timing/carbs I would be interested to hear other's views. The car is a 1760 xflow with Cossie A6 cam, stage 4 race head, steel rocker assy and runs on twin 40s with distributor and a Lucas competition ignition. The ECU uses throttle position and rpm sensors, not sure what else but it's an early Emerald system - air temp perhaps? The RR set car up with 30mm chokes which are probably too restrictive so a move up to 34mm beckons. Currently I'm not sure whether to retune the car first with existing chokes, then do same with 34mm? Or do I get them to install 34mm ones and go straight from there? Is there any point doing a RR test with ECU hooked up to see if I get any performance gains on existing 30mm eg would peak power likely increase? Any thoughts welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Maybe I missed something on an earlier thread but did you identify the ECU as an early Emerald then? Brent 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I have no idea how they altered the fuelling if they couldn't talk to the ECU! Presumably they just changed the fuel pressure. I would take it to a rolling road with a clue. And if you want to swap throttle bodies (I assume you don't mean carbs when you say chokes) then do it first to save mapping twice. If the Emerald is being run ignition-only then likewise, I can't see how they mapped anything except moving the base timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 its running on carbs so the ecu will be ignition only . I would simply take it to emerald to be setup - that way you can be confident that the job has been done it sounds like the last place you wnet to didnt do a good job so I wouldnt go back there again here is C7 TOP South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 Brent, I did mention it (on about page 47!) as took some pics and sent to Dave Walker @ Emerald. He confirmed it was an early model and they have done a free software/firmware upgrade. Good luck with new engine installation - fingers very crossed for you and here's hoping for happy, stress free high revving. 😬 Danny, No I'm on carbs. Re base timing this must be suspect as everyone I talk to comments how advanced it sounds. Anyway it sounds like I should press on with 34mm chokes and then get it re-tuned. I'll wait and see what RR offers first before casting judgment. However I'm also interested to see the impact (if any) of merely be able to communicate with the ECU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Surely the whole point of having the ECU for the ignition is to be able to map the ignition to match your engine. I can't see how they could have done this without talking to it. And it sounds like the fuelling is dodgy anyway given your description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 Emerald's RR doesn't tune carbs hence bit stuck. Tom Airey has been recommended many times, though he doesn't work much with ECUs sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If location "Da smoke" means London, then I would strongly recommend Track & Road. I think they still do carbs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Try talking to Bill Shurvinton ( bill@shurvinton.fsworld.co.uk) and borrow/hiring one of his Innovates. It allows you to fit a probe up your exhaust that will give you a reading to your air/fuel ration whilst driving. This way, assuming you are happy with ingition setting, you can play with your carbs to ge the correct fuelling. JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 230bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I am pleased that Emerald have identified it as one of theirs as I suspected it was Am I missing something, is there any reason why Emerald can't re-map it for you or are they saying that the issues are with the carbs and hence it won't help ? I would offer to send you a paper copy of one of my 264 cam crossflow maps for the early emerald but I suspect that the cam is too different for it to be relevent for your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 Graham, Emerald's RR won't/can't set up carbs period, so I'd rather go somewhere to hit both at same time particularly as they are located in the back of beyond. I now have software and connection lead so am hoping my local RR can conduct tuning to successful conclusion. But wondering if getting Emerald to communicate with RR will magically raise power with current carb settings or whether both must be done 'in concert'. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannylt Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Fiddling with ignition now might increase power, but much better to do in concert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 McB, if you're planning to return to the RR that ledt a set of 30mm chokes in the 40's the last time they "had a go" at your car then ???!!! . A 1760 with A6 cam is NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS going to run well with 30mm chokes. 32mm is MINIMUM and that would probably require some wierd jetting, 34mm OK. and some would say that to get teh best out of that engine you'd be better moving to 45's anyway. I wouldn't let any supposed "tuning garage" that doesn't know the basics like this anywhere near my car ❗ (and I've had x-flows blown up by experts 😬) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 Just remembered also that when RR set it up, peak power came in at 6,200 rpm. Odd as engine designed to rev to 7,200 so sthg obviously amiss. Does this sound like a timing issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DohNut Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 It was trying to breath through a very small hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Ah yes small holes and cats just don't go; OK for mice tho. How much can I expect from a rolling road in terms of setting up the dizzie to correct advance. Is this sthg they should be able to do or must the factory do it? The settings for my dizzie were for a std 1700 xflow but I'm unsure if the RR adjusted it with new engine. Would they tend to keep a database of stuff or should I tell them what settings should be? I also have a competition ignition which is supposed to produce a better spark. What is the relationship between this, the ECU and dizzie in terms of what sets what? Sorry to sound thick but my next trip to RR must deliver so keen to get all the info in place beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_C Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 If the carbs are controlling the fuel and the dizzy is timing the spark, what exactly is the Emerald supposed to do for you anyway? I don't have a detailed understanding of carb engines, but when I tuned my last one we set the carb, set the dizzy and away it all went... Cheers Tom FH54WLX - only the car supports ManU, honest! see here - UPDATED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 In a word, mapping, so that the engine's efficiency can be harnessed I guess. Or am I talking boolooks? Please someone knowledgeable rescue me from my ignorance on these matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 buy this here here is C7 TOP South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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