Throttle bodies

[tony isherwood]

Are throttle bodies for a K series interchangeable. I.e if I purchase a set for a 1400, can they be used on a 1600 or a 1800 or do thay have to be sized for the engine ?

 

Am I correct in assuming that the original injectors are used or do the bodies / performance benefit from different injectors.

 

Ditto question re EngMAnSystems, I assume one type will fit all K series.

 

Finally Demon tweeks offer all in a box ! Is there a better / cheaper way, without a lota hassle in having to source bits from different suppliers.

 

Thx (and merry Christmas / Happy new year to those I know and those I have yet to meet.)

 

TonyIsh

[Roger King]

One size of throttle body will fit to 1400, 1600 and 1800 head because they are all the same, BUT the VVC or VHPD head has larger inlet ports and will need the throttle bodies machining out to match.

 

Injector choice will depend on engine performance.

 

Ks have used more than one type of engine management so you need to be certain that your ECU is compatible.

 

Edited by - roger king on 23 Dec 2001 16:07:56

[Johnty Lyons]

Rodger is as usuall correct I will risk abuse here but you can't go far wrong with a set of direct to head bodies direct from Jenvyes and a M3DK direct from Emerald there are more K's on this set up than any other and a vast amount of knowledge on here and "The List" But you Tony knew that before you asked you just wanted reassurance. One point steer clear of Demon Thieves.

Do a DVA head as well:-) and get yourself some serious HP.

 

 

jj

 

Edited by - Johnty Lyons on 23 Dec 2001 21:50:23

[tony isherwood]

Thanks guys, the bolting on bit I (probably) can do. How easy is it to map the ignition. Never having played these sorts of games before. ( I can / have balance(d) carbs by ear, I suppose that sorta thing is now replaced with a laptop and serial cable. Ultimately I assume its a rolling road job by someone that cames highly recommended (and hopefully cheap!)

 

[Roger King]

You will still need to balance the throttle bodies in the same manner as carbs, but mapping is a different matter entirely. This is done via a PC normally, but should not be attempted unless you, a)know what you are doing, b)have access to the correct equipment for measuring fuel/air ratio, c)have use of a dyno or rolling road. Det' cans are also a usesful piece of kit.

 

Mapping without the above is akin to altering carburettor jets and ignition timing when you have no idea what you are doing. Potentially, the results are even worse.

[oilyhands]

Tony,

 

Depending on your ECU they may already be a map available which will be close enough for you to run the engine safely. Balancing the TBs is straightforward enough , basically its the same as with a pair of Webers, the only time you can dial in your idle is when it is entirely supported by an IACV with the TBS completely closed. Most aftermarket ECUs dont operate in this manner.

 

Some ECUs have Lambda feedback which gives an on-screen indicastion of the A/F ratio and allows you to target stoichiometric/richer than stoi.

 

Have a read of the section on mapping here, there's also some useful info on TBs and configuring you EMS.

 

Oily

 

Oily

[Peter Carmichael]

Isn't the Demon Tweeks kit the Lumenition stuff which includes the Jenvey direct to head throttle bodies?

 

Previous comments apply. The throttle linkage is not sorted. The coolant bleed needs to be fitted with a spout which is fiddly. Probably doesn't come with a filter. Chris Clark will be along in a minute to tell you that PTP throttle bodies have all this sorted.

 

Tony Martyr will tell you that, Jenvey-style, this is not a simple bolt-on job. Caveat emptor.

[oilyhands]

Mmm.. well with the PTP bodies you'll need to modify your inlet ports on anything other than the VHPD and VVC heads to avoid a large step. Experience with mapping with the PTP bodies indicates a poorer idle than with the Jenvey DTH bodies, thoughts are that the length of tract between the butterfly and the inlet valve adversely affects the quality of the idle, especially with hotter cams.

 

See here for an inexpensive solution to the linkage and airfilter / airbox situation for the DTH bodies.

 

Oily

 

 

[tony isherwood]

Thanks, I have some interesting Boxing day reading !!. Plan A was to buy a throttle bodies and management system for my 1400SS, with a view to transfer to a 1600 / or 1800 engine if/when I find one. Then do an engine swap. That would spread the cost / time and fiddle factor. I thought that it might give me a spring / summer boost next year.

 

Or am I am I wasting my time / money / effort getting more out of a 1400SS when it would be better spent sourcing an engine and then spending time sorting that engine ?

 

 

[Roger King]

Tony,

 

Unless you have one of the very early 1400ccm engines, you can alter your capacity by changing crankshaft, liners, conrods, etc. These engines could be described as modular in the sense that all capacity combinations can be achieved by this method.

 

This may be more attractive than buying another engine and having to do all the mods required to get it to fit the chassis.

[Peter Carmichael]

Almost all the Caterham supplied 1.4s were the early, non-modular type.

[Jason Plato]

Plus , you can pick up an 1800 from salvage for around £400 complete . When all the internals woulod be around £250 plus consumables require during the rebuild would be a further £100 ++

 

Dave

 

Edited by - Dave J on 27 Dec 2001 12:55:56

[Johnty Lyons]

Tony se my posting on this list I have the complete guts of a 1.6 for sale and that with Jenvy bodies piper cams and A DVA style head should get you into the 170+ power band Personally I cannot speak highly enough of the Emerald M3DK unit the after sales and Map library[try oiley hands] are second to none.

 

jj

[tony isherwood]

Johnty, you have mail. (hopefuly !)

[tony isherwood]

Mine is the old 1400 SS non linered engine. I live near to Mike Day and you all may recall his sad saga of the 1400 to 1600 upgrade. (Now resolved into a nice little motor).

 

I suppose the positive side is that if you can’t take the liners out, the chances of them moving @ high revs is fairly low. Hence my thoughts on a new EMSystem, throttle bodies and upping the rev range. (Silly naive boy that I am)

 

[oilyhands]

Tony,

 

You can take the liners out on the 'wet' linered engine, but the block and liners are a completely different design being top hung with 'O' rings. The 'damp' linered engines use clamping along the length of the liner for location for both the 1.4 and 1.6/1.8 bore size. The bore increase for the 1.6 couldnt be done whil retaining the top hung 'wet' type arrangement because of space constraints, hence the re-design. The top hung liners seem to give a more reliable head/block join.

 

If it were me I would find a secondhand damp linered short engine, preferably 1.8 and make the changes to that, you will never match the torque delivery of a 1.6/1.8 no matter what you do to the 1.4. If the head on your 1.4 is the later high port type,(casting number LDF10233 or later) then it should all bolt on nicely. The head will also be very suitable for further modfication.

 

Oily

[Mick Day]

Tony

Can't agree more with what's been said so far. The Lumenition kit contains Jenvey TB's & a badge engineered GEMS ECU. Althought the GEMS is a well put together piece of kit (talk to Pete McEwen at Raceline, I don't think he uses any other ECU whether for Zetec "K" or VX.) the Emerald M3DK ECU has tremendous backup, not only here, but also from Emerald. You can get TB's which bolt to a separate manifold (try Southern Carburetors) which incorporate the coolant bleed. From my experience I would recommend as others have said, get a second hand engine (preferably with some provenance) & do the work at your own speed. All the details of the conversion are in the public domain so you should have few problems which can't be resolved by return of email. Good luck.

Mick