Ian Macquarie Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Are there any subtle differences in the pump size, or positioning of the ports, which makes one or other of the above 5 port pumps easier to fit? The pumps look slightly different but without having both to hand it is difficult to judge whether one has advantages over the other. As a secondary question, is one better than the other in operation? Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 AFAIK, and I stand to be corrected, they're basically exactly the same thing. (You can also get the same pump with "Burtons" written on the front cover). There are minor differences in terms of size of the rotors etc but this is a question of age and evolution of the pump rather than anything else. They may have slightly different inlet pipes from the sump (the longitudinal distance from pump inlet to sump outlet varies slightly) and also the sealing system on this inlet pipe varies. IIRC it was originally twin "o" rings with the inlet pipe being puched through these and has moved on to a more robust system. (The original design resulted in the inlet bore on the pump opening out and eventually allowing suction of air into the pump. So - In answer to your question - In principle, and barring a few minor mods over the period of time, I think that there's "nowt between 'em ". Dave. The trouble with life is, you're halfway through it before you realize it's a do-it-yourself thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Macquarie Posted November 19, 2005 Author Share Posted November 19, 2005 Thanks Dave, I know that they are pretty similar, from pictures it looks as though the orientation of the scavenge ports are slightly different (the pace being more "horizontal") I wondered whether this gave clearance issues with the Caterham "dry sump" engine mount. Also as I understand it there are clearance issues between some (one?) of the ports and the steering column. I wondered if the slight differences between the pumps made one easier to fit than the other. (Mind you as I've only seen pictures, there may be less difference than it looks.) Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Can't say whether one is more, or less difficult than the other. I've only fitted two Pace type ones - and they were both slightly different in terms of inlet pipe length. Neither was easy to get in. Remember that you can't get them in if teh engine mounting is attached. They can be installed with the carbs etc left on th ecar. You will, most likely, have to rotate the steering rack to lift the column slightly out of teh way of the hoses/couplings. Use a proprietary metal-to-metal sealant. If you use a gasket it will leak. DEFINITELY don't use mastic. On most blocks ONE of the blind mounting holes is normally not as deep as the other two (ISTR that it's the top right one). If all your bolts are the same length then you'll probably end up with a leaker. There's probably more, but I can't remember at the moment, Dave. The trouble with life is, you're halfway through it before you realize it's a do-it-yourself thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 It will still probably leak a bit anyway, mine does, and I have tried various sealing methods over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdodo Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 I have a titan (aka burton) pump and had to move the steering rack. Twist to raise the coloum up and move a smidgen towards the offside to stop the coloum and pump fouling when there is a lot engine vibration... for whatever reason. Nick PS anyone know how to make a crossflow 100% oil leak free? Nick in the (1987) 1700 X Flow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Now that's a post killer if ever I saw one. .. .. Sounds of wind whistling across the desert and pictures of tumbleweed rolling along a deserted street. That's what's springing to mind 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontal Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Waiting for the total contents of the engine to deposit itself on the garage floor, but in the last 7 months my xflow hasn't dripped any oil at all !!!!!! I have checked the levels and it does use/blow out to the catch tank the usual amounts. Not a drop on the floor as yet. Sealing the exhaust, thats another story, but we are getting there! Sylvia Silverstone on 45's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdodo Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Horizontal, Pray tell the secret... mine allways deposits some oil from the bell housing and some from somewhere near/about the (drysump) oil pump...or is it the breather exit from the crancase... or is it....? Who knows? However haveing made the deposit, sone after stopping, it does not continue to drip. Either it comes out under pressure or only while draining down. Someone mentioned oil thowers to me at onetime but I have never looked in to it. I intend to remove sump and replace gasket and seals at the next service to see if this helps. More hope than any good reasoning... Nick Nick in the (1987) 1700 X Flow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Just a small hint to all x-flow owners who run a dry sump pump. Some blocks are not tapped all the way for the 7/16ths thread that holds the oil pump on. And if you use the standard bolts they do not tighten up the pump to the block. Some i have seen are only a mill or two out but it feels like the bolt pinches up to the alloy body of the pump.So you think it is tight but it does not clamp it to the block. The best way to check is remove the pump and wind in the bolt until it stops and measure the length you have against the pump body, to asertain if it will give sufficient clamping force to the oil pump. This is why some people complain that they always leak. Carbon Components Here K9 Composites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Confirm what Peter says - Have checked 3 blocks and it's been the top right hole that has been the shortest on all occasions. (Hence my cap-head for that hole is painted red on the end !) Dave The trouble with life is, you're halfway through it before you realize it's a do-it-yourself thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdodo Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Thanks guys - i'll check the bolts - when I can get to the pump. Top right shpold be shorter than the others. Is there an easy way of doing this? From the top the carbs, dizzy etc is in the way from underneath the car has to be up on axle stands. Nick Nick in the (1987) 1700 X Flow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Can be done o.k. - I fitted mine with everything else in place. IIRC Access to rearmost upper bolt is from in front of pedal box following route of accelrator cable and/or from underneath. Access to bottom bolt - from bottom of car. Top right bolt is from front of car No axle stands needed. If you're really having difficulty (seeing) then can remove filter from the front pair of carbs to make life easier. If you want to check depth of holes then remove the pump (support engine on sump so that you can remove the engine mount). Remove pump and then put the same bolt back into each hole, bottom it and see how much thread you have left protruding. Takes a long time but can/does stop leaks. Dave. The trouble with life is, you're halfway through it before you realize it's a do-it-yourself thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickdodo Posted November 22, 2005 Share Posted November 22, 2005 Dave, You must have very thin arms and a lot of ground clearance...or perhaps my 7 dexterity needs development. Nick PS - have sent yemp sensors back - neither seemd to read the same as mine, which is a VDO one with a different colour plastic insulator. Nick Nick in the (1987) 1700 X Flow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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