Nifty Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Have seen the AOs Preview of The Year in the Club DVD. There are some cracking bits of onboard footage from Dave Jackson, Adam Hay, David Nelson and others. This has got me all excited and I'm now contemplating the possibility of doing more than just Curborough. My car (Molly) is a standard 1.4 Supersport running widetrack with an FIA rollbar and leather S-type seats. The car is fitted with an Apollo tank, a starter button but no electrical cut off switch. I'm running a full windscreen, which will stay for this season anyway but I may investigate a removable aeroscreen for the future. (I smashed the sump shortly after rebuilding this summer and have subsequently scuffed the replacement one several times during the Big Blat so I'm considering putting heavier springs on the front 🤔) Current road wheels are 14" Minilites with RE720s but I also have a pair of ex-Ince R500 mags wearing 032Rs. As a complete novice what class should I put myself into, I believe I'm eligible for Class 3 or Class 4 depending on tyre choice? Are you allowed to switch classes? (Eg I'm originally down to compete on 032Rs but on the day it's wet and so for preservation of car I want to switch to RE720s, will I be allowed to do that?) And now for the list of things I believe I need to do before being eligible to compete in the L7C sprints: Certified helmet (done) Certified overalls (possibly sorted) National B Race Licence (will get sorted after 1st Jan 2005) Timing strut Race numbers Head restraint plate (Have it but haven't yet padded the plate and fitted) Optional but advised: Addition rollbar padding Petty strut (have one but Arch forgot to cut the hole in the internal panel to allow access to the bush - will probably trundle over to Huntingdon and get it done). Further options: Fire extinguisher Electrical cut off switch (slightly reluctant because I can't see how to fit it without sabotaging my new panels and paintwork). Please let me know of any items I've forgotten and give any comments you feel necessary. Many thanks in anticipation and growing excitment, Nifty. (Now off to watch Dave Jackson's lap of Curborough yet again) *thumbup* *thumbup* Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 22 Nov 2004 13:47:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Can I change the visor on my helmet to a dark tinted one and if I do does this visor have to be a certain specification? I currently have a Craft Raptor VR1R with clear visor but would like to change to a tinted visor because it is a lot easier to wear my standard glasses inside the helmet than my shades. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 21 Nov 2004 20:40:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Nifty In answer to your specifics: *arrowright*Your car is eligible for Class 2 (good starting poiint)with RE720's or Class 3 with AO32 R's *arrowright*You can do what you like with screens as long as you have one *arrowright*Timing strut(you can buy one from caterham) or make one yourself as long as its matt black and is the dimensions listed in the blue book. *arrowright*Head Restraint compulsory, you must fit it *arrowright*Petty Strut, not compulsory *arrowright*Fire Extinguisher, not compulsory and adds extra weight (thats what marshals are for ) *arrowright*Electrical Cut Off Switch, again not comp, easiest way is to mark your dashboard with a sticker above ign switch showing which way is off (DT sell a sticker sheet called a Scrutineers Delight that has arrows and on/off stickers for a coupke of quid) Most of all enjoy yourself and come and join the camaraderie that exists between all competitors, just ask for help and everyone will. Ring me or mail me if you need more info, Graham Competition Secretary 2005 Speed Championship - 12 Events and Growing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Mark the battery earth lead with bands of yellow tape so as to distinguish to marshalls in the event of an accident. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijk Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Some scrutineers like the positive battery terminal covered. I have been asked to tape mine on the day so not a major hold up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 National B Race Licence (will get sorted after 1st Jan 2005) 'Non-Race National B' to be exact. Although it is reasonably clear on the forms. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 re - the visor - there was some discussion about this a while back, however i cannot remember the outcome, but I think it was said to be ok as long as it wasn't the reflective type,something to do with the marshalls being able to see your eyes I will see if I can find the relevant thread rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 here is the thread here not sure if there was a definitive answer rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 The Blue Book suggests BS4110Z for visors and requires clear or neutral density filters. Which is, I think, pretty clear(!). Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Sorry Graham, got my classes wrong, was trying to remember from my commentary info at Curborough. Having not really considered it before I haven't studied the supplementary info that goes out with LF. Paul, Thanks, that is what I meant Good points on the battery lead marking..will turn up with tape and mark whichever they ask for. (My Banner battery has integrated terminal covers). My biggest fear is turning up having thought I was all prepared only to be disqualified before I've started because my cars missing something 😳 ❗ ❗ Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Nifty - I would suspect that if you had problems there would be an army of helpers willing to try and get you through. It was suggested to me that if possible go down to an MSA sprint nearby before you first event and ask the scrutineers to check over your car to look for potential problems also despite some of the rumours scrutineers are generally very approchable and friendly and will try and get you through with the minimum fo fuss, well at least in my expereince Tell them your are a first time and they will take the time to explain what they are checking for and things to look out for... rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renny Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Quote: also despite some of the rumours scrutineers are generally very approchable and friendly and will try and get you through with the minimum fo fuss, well at least in my expereince Tell them your are a first time and they will take the time to explain what they are checking for and things to look out for... Thanks for that... We are humans and do have parents... We will usually help and advise, especially if you are a newcomer. With regard to the visor, the "neutral density" means that it shouldn't change colours, particularly red to anything else (flag signals). If the battery has covered terminals, just put some yellow tape on the earth lead. If you're getting roll-bar padding, buy the proper stuff, not pipe insulation. Renny Thomson MSA Scrutineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl0498 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Hi Nifty, Welcome to the world of speed events. You will get hooked pretty rapidly! A few comments on your posting: Not sure if you have read the two articles which are on the competitors corner part of the main L7CGB site. These provide a bit more general detail - any comments (emails please) on these (from anyone) please as I will try to update them over the next few weeks or so. Whats missing, could be improved etc! As to visors it is essential you have one - we did have one competitor a year or so ago at Curborough who thought his Oakley sunglasses would do the trick with an open-faced helmet in lieu of a visor! No. (Q.11) Does the Craft helmet meet the requirements? - BS 6658-85 Type A or Snell SA 95 or 2000 or the equivalent SFI Foundation standards. ECE 22.05 and ACU standards are not recognised in the MSA Blue Book and hence are not OK. As to changing classes depending on the weather etc - the simple answer is no - you will be expected to compete in the class you have entered. Class changes normally only occur because a competitor has misunderstood the requirements for the class entered or there has been a car failure and thus the competitor drives a different car or occasionally a different driver for the same car. Class changes cause quite a bit of extra admin for everyone involved in running an event and hence are minimised as much as possible. If you enter the Championship you will only acrrue points gained by competing in the class you have registered for within the Championship. Putting all that aside - many moons ago when I was somewhat concerned about competing in the wet my fellow competitors simply said that - 'its the same for everyone' - whether you have RE720's in Class 2 or ACB10's in Class 3. Perhaps thats why I still compete in Class 2!! Any other queries, please ask. As Graham say's everyone will be happy to help. Brian Clerk of the Course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 As above changing classes may not be on but if it's wet that wouldn't stop you changing from 32's to more sensible tyres and staying in class 3. Running less special tyres than your class allows is OK. What you couldn't do is expect rain and enter class 2 on road tyres and decide to run 32's when the sun comes out No-ones mentioned double trottle return springs, presume that's because the 1400 Supersport has a single throttle spindle so is OK as standard? Sorry I'm a bit of a novice on K's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Payne Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 My 1400 is the same as Niftys' and none of the scrutineers have ever mentioned twin throttle springs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Brian, Many thanks for that post. I have read both those pages and in fact have them printed out. Just had to post to alleviate some of my premature excitement and also see if anything new popped up. The double throttle return springs is an interesting one, can anyone give me a categoric answer to this (Brian, Graham ?) My helmet should be okay as I established here. So, if I enter Class 3 I can still use List 1a tyres. Hmm, might do that. The class doesn't really matter because either way as a virgin sprinter/racer/track driver I'm not going to be toppling Mr Jackson and friends from their cushy perch (or rather, if I am I shall be more interested in procuring a lottery ticket before that weeks draw). Class 3 on 032Rs would be more fun in the dry (and should help me to achieve a faster time than my arch rival of Thetford RFC [spits on floor emoticon], Mr Hodgkinson, in Class 1). I am hoping I will be doing a dual drive with my friend Jason (Wyatt). Considering how we drive normally I would expect him to be faster than I am. Interestingly, only this afternoon I was talking about gear and he questioned whether his ACU approved helmet would be OK. My question has been answered *thumbup* Must see if I can get some tuition in with Austin (Kinsella) before my first outting *thumbup*. Many thanks for all your replies *thumbup* Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Edited by - Nifty on 22 Nov 2004 21:16:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Nifty.......bring it on.....I'm in a win win here.If I post better times in class 1 well hooooorrraaahhh...if I dont well you are two classes above me 😬 😬 😬 Gordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Nifty.......bring it on.....I'm in a win win here.If I post better times in class 1 well hooooorrraaahhh...if I dont well you are two classes above me 😬 😬 😬 Gordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 sorry....stutterring again ❗ Gordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Trying to convince yourself are you *tongue* 😬 😬 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 no. Gordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 A few other things where the scrutineers have advised that they were not happy in the past are; Harness bolts, the threads on bolts for the shoulder straps should be through the tube that they screw into and you should just be able to feel them underneath. Boot floor should ideally be sealed around the edges. Some scrutineers dont like to see the exposed fuel pipe in the boot and like to see it covered. These are not necessarily L7 events though, but these topics have come up in the archive in relation to sprinting regs. Interesting about the second return spring, I know scrutineers are thorough about checking them on Carb engined cars, but dont know about K's with injection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Re Second return springs. History - Twin webers have internal return springs, these used to break and jam the throttles open, so scrutes insisted on an external throttle spring that could be checked at scrutineering to confirm it wasn't broken. Then with twin twin webers there was a risk of the central link breaking so that a single throttle spring would close one carb but leave the other wide open, hence the need for twin, external throttle springs. Blue book words - E12.4.2 - Be equipped with a positive method of throttle closing by means of exteral spring/springs so that in the event of failure of any part of the throttle linkage the throttle(s) are sprung closed. For K's - With a plenum there's a single throttle spindle. So there is no need for twin throttle return springs as there's only one spindle. The way the blue book rules were written though still need an external spring (but only one). I think the standard throttle spring is visible, a sort of coil spring round the spindle easily visible, if this is right then as standard it satisfies the blue book so no mods needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renny Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 The issue with the fuel pipe is that there should be a fire-proof bulkhead between the fuel tank and the driver. The sealing of the boot floor and the enclosing of the pipe should meet this requirement. The "additional" throttle spring is not a requirement but is the way that many Scrutineers interpreted this regulation. If there is an external spring, acting directly (or almost) onto the spindle, then nothing else is needed. Of course with full electronic control, there may be no spindle as such! Hope this helps Edited by - Renny on 29 Nov 2004 11:18:47 Edited by - Renny on 29 Nov 2004 11:19:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 The fireproof bulkhead between tank and driver is not relevant to Speed events. A firewall between engine and driver is, although how that fits with an open car with bonnet louvres has never made that much sense. See E12.2.3 and J20.1.1 Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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