Duratec Fuel Tank/Pump Setup

[Ferrino]

My only experience of Caterham fuel tanks is the carb variety, which operate with a low-pressure external pump and a separate fuel sender. I am now building a 2.0 fuel-injected Duratec 7 and have no fuel tank or pump parts at all (I do have the tunnel plumbed with supply & return plumbing, though).

I was wondering what I should order, please? Am I looking for the ali fuel tank with an in-tank fuel pump? Is there a particular pump I'm after? From the pics on the Caterham website, it looks like there is an assembly which combines the in-tank pump with the sender/float unit?

Thanks!

[Molecular--Bob]

Your first decision is which fuel rail you want to use, followed by how you want to regulate the pressure. The stock solution is a non return "dead head" which is what I have gone with on my supersprint to duratec conversion. I have an imperial rover spec tank with internal stock pump. I have used a c5 Corvette filter regulator, located in the rear of the car with a single line going to the stock in head fuel rail, this runs at 3.8 bar, so stock injectors "should" be fine for an unmodified engine as it will be~20% over fueling due to the pressure increase. I have used the Caterham supplied nylon line designed for the metric duratec cars with the top mounted pumps as it has push fit connectors on both ends. 

The tank you mention in your post may require an external pump controller as I think it electronically regulates the fuel pressure via the ecu, or at least that is how it runs in its Ford installation, not sure if this is how caterham do it. 

You may need an upgraded pump if you are going beyond a stock engine.

If you have the metal fuel feed line as supplied by Caterham then I think they do a short adaptor hose that works with the stock Duratec in head rail.

Life has been getting in the way so mine is a work in progress, but I cut the side skins for the exhaust last weekend and if the weather holds off I plan to start on the engine loom this weekend, so maybe 2 months to engine start.

Which ecu do you plan on using? There are good base maps for DTA, Emerald and Omex, but I couldn't find anything for MBE when I started the project.

[John Vine]

Am I looking for the ali fuel tank with an in-tank fuel pump?

Yes.

Assuming your engine is relatively standard (say R400/420R level), this tank (36T003A) should work for an S3 and this one (56T002A) for an SV.  The odd thing is that neither are listed as for a Duratec, but CC themselves fitted the S3 version to my 2008 R400D in 2014 during repairs.

Is there a particular pump I'm after?

This pump should be suitable, but do check with CC, as they list it as for pre-2015 Duratecs and there appears to be a later one.

There's a guide here (on fuel gauge calibration) containing some pics etc that may help.

ETA: Forgot to ask:  What year is your car?  Is it imperial or metric chassis? If the former, my comments above may not apply, so do check with CC themselves!

JV

[7 wonders of the world]

K series tanks are easy to get as are uprated pumps but the Rover pump cradle is becoming kine hens teeth so either look at using the Ford internal pump / tank set up or you could possible modify your tank and use a Bosch 044 external pump with filter and pressure reg T piece and high volume dead end rail.

Pump can be mounted near the filter.

[Ferrino]

Thanks all. The car is a 2002 (de Dion, imperial/Arch) and currently there is no tank at all - just a pair of lines running through the tunnel. I am planning to use the Raceline direct-to-head throttle body kit, but I'm not sure if I will use a rail with injectors in the throttle bodies, or the stock arrangement with the Ford rail & injectors in the head. I will see which Raceline recommends, but I think I prefer the sound of injectors in the head, which sounds like it would require the "dead head" configuration?

Haven't decided on ECU yet, but it seems Raceline likes the Omex kit. I'll probably end up with whatever my local rolling road/tuning company likes to work with (I'm in the US).

To be honest, I wasn't even aware of the "dead head" setup, where the rail terminates! And I didn't even know there were in-tank pump! I assumed I'd take an early injection tank and mount a high-pressure pump on the rear bulkhead, with a regulator after the rail, sending fuel back to the return line/tank. I believe the early tank is still available and the hole in the side where the old in-tank pump was mounted could be blanked off (for using an external pump).

Not sure about ECU-driven pump controllers. Sounds like there are different flavors of in-tank pumps?

[Molecular--Bob]

If you are in America you may be able to get hold of an in head injector fuel rail that can be adapted to a return line like this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/252275628763, Think it is for a 2.3 focus. This would make using a rover tank, pump and a normal regulator with a return line a lot easier as it would be plumbed as Caterham intended.

[7 wonders of the world]

Thats a OE Ford dead end rail (used by CC with injectors in the head) and therefore has no return line in the tunnel just a short length from the Webber pressure reg which is mount just in front of the tank.   Reg is a Ford part but I was not able to locate one thro Webcon in he UK...... CC price is very steep.

No reason not to use an aftermarket one that many companies offer though either fixed or adjustable. 

[Molecular--Bob]

That rail is not the uk spec dead head, it has a port on top that holds a pressure sensor, which can be modified with an adapter to accept a fuel fitting.

[7 wonders of the world]

Arh missed that.....

Normal 

cc set up with dead end and rail single tunnel hose is still an easier conversion though.

[Ferrino]

Can I please clarify a few things?

When you refer to a "Rover" tank, are you talking about this one:

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/tanks/1484-fuel-tank-injection-aluminium.html

So this would have the early in-tank pump that inserts from the side and fuel is returned from the rail to the tank (eternal regulator).

And then the "Ford" tank is the new one:

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/tanks/2537-fuel-tank-assembly-sigma-2006-onwards-suzuki.html

Which does not have a return and the in-tank pump mounts from the top and is designed to be used with a "dead head" rail.

Questions:

1. The pump for the new "Ford" type tank: someone suggested it may need to be controlled by the ECU - is that correct?

2. The pump for the old "Rover" type tank: can you still source the pump carrier/cradle new? Sounds like it's discontinued?

[Molecular--Bob]

I think you are right on the tank types, and I think on question 2 you are probably going to struggle to buy new. On question one, I don't know is the honest answer, as designed by ford, fuel pressure is regulated by the ecu by control of duty cycle of the pump motor. Not sure if there is also an internal regulator to control final line pressure?

[Ferrino]

Thanks. So are the basket-style pump/sender units for the new Ford tanks generic Ford parts or are they somehow Caterham-specific?

[John Vine]

They're Ford parts.  According to my notes, the latest Duratec pump/sender is Ford P/N BV61-9H307-DD.

JV

[Ferrino]

Thanks all - very useful. I'd like to use the latest Ford tank/pump arrangement, but since I already have both tunnel fuel lines in place, I'd like to regulate fuel pressure right next to the rail (either in a "dead head" or traditional return arrangement). What is still not clear to me is how much pressure these Ford pumps make with no electronic pressure controller (as appears to be used in their native configuration on production cars). And just to be clear - these new Ford-style tanks have no return inlet port on the bottom, right?

[7 wonders of the world]

CC use this pressure reg mounted just in front of the tank

https://caterhamparts.co.uk/pumps-senders/1598-fuel-pressure-regulator-assembly-csr.html

The Dead end (dead head is more a term for the government  ) set up is proven simple to set up an high volume railscan be picked up very cheap.

Re the old return line its only plastic so just cut it and pull it out !

Return on all injection tanks it at the top not the bottom usually around the middle of the tank.

[Ferrino]

Thanks! It wasn't clear that there was any return port at all on the new Ford tanks. So there is a short return line that goes from the regulator back to the tank somewhere. I presume this means that Caterham does not use an electronic fuel pump controller, since there is a regulator...

[Molecular--Bob]

Anyone got a picture of how this is plumbed? As far as i am aware Caterham now run a single nylon line direct from the pump to to the fuel rail on a Duratec https://caterhamparts.co.uk/hoses/1176-fuel-pipe-pump-to-fuel-rail.html?search_query=fuel&results=144, not sure there is even a fuel filter? And they do have pump controllers listed, https://caterhamparts.co.uk/pumps-senders/5336-fuel-pump-module-seven-485.html?search_query=fuel&results=144 I have no idea what this does, how it is wired or if it is ecu controlled?

If you go the Ford tank/pump route be careful not to buy an ecoboost pump, they are designed to run at 6 bar.

All of this uncertainty is why I went with a rover tank, and use the Corvette filter regulator https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/C5-Corvette-Fuel-Filter-pressure-Regulator-58-PSI-for-LS-Swap-Ships/23018980865?iid=183501474481&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=183501474481&targetid=568476006364&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1007064&poi=&campaignid=1669190354&mkgroupid=67214011400&rlsatarget=pla-568476006364&abcId=578896&merchantid=6995734&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2K3rBRDiARIsAOFSW_7U4P8OV5f8M7UkydPIU-ssKMSPN6L6vn_S8RaIFiEKwulbLbLuNRwaApE0EALw_wcB to run a single nylon hose (the Caterham one) to the in head deadhead fuel rail, with a short return line back to the tank, this sits about where the K series fuel filter was located but horizontal.

This facebook page seems to indicate that the Ford pumps have a 4Bar internal bypass https://www.facebook.com/Duratec.in.detail/posts/the-caterham-fuel-pump-is-a-lot-more-complex-than-expected-it-delivers-about-4-b/776844509073513/

[Molecular--Bob]

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[Molecular--Bob]

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[simon_h]

The standard ford pump has an internal reg that is at 3.8 bar. The filter is part of the pump as well. 

The ecoboost pump is only used on the 485 and 620 with an ECU controlled unit to vary the pressure. If you don’t use the unit it will run at about 8 bar from memory 

[Ferrino]

Do you have the Ford part number for the pump that is internally regulated to push out 3.8 BAR, please? i.e. the non-Ecoboost one. Thanks.