1400 K series oil levels - Any change in current thinking or am I doing it wrong

[Toby S]

I've seen various threads in the past on how to dip the oil on the K series (runing or not running) and the pros and cons/Minister method/original caterham method/ new recommended method etc.

Mine is a wet sump, without Apollo tank.

I check once engine is warm (80-85 degrees) - when dipping 30 seconds after switch off, level is at max on dip stick  - if I then I check again when engine running (quick dip) it only just registers a few millimeters on the end of the dip stick, below the minimum level (I've got the hatched marked dipstick). Fearing oil starvation, I've so far been adding more oil to get the level on the quick dip method (engine running) at least registering between the min and max levels (in the middle) on the dip stick (usually around 1/2 a litre) to then know the oil pick up will not be sucking on thin air, albeit when I then switch off the oil levels are miles over the max when the engine is not running.

3 questions

1. Is the disparity in levels my engine seems to be recording between the 2 methods something I should be worried about - I would guess the difference in the amount of oil in the engine between the 2 method in getting the same reading on the dipstick could be a litre or more

2.  Am I doing it right under current thinking, or am I overfilling - i.e should be taken with engine switched off

3. Should I be whacking it up to the max on the quick dip method (engone running), i.e. putting even more oil in.

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick

[Graham King]

Toby, I’ve always measured the level on my k-series with the engine running, I do however have an Apollo which will obviously cause a higher reading after switch off. I don’t think the difference is worrying, as soon as you turn off, the oil in the system will start to drain back into the sump. I fill mine to the upper level on the dipstick with the system running, I’ve not had any problems using that method. 

Graham.

[oilyhands]

I always check the level immediately after turn off, otherwise when the engine is running, windage can prevent an accurate reading being taken, you need to do this within 10 secs of turn off, this will then work with or without an Apollo.

Oily

[Dartmoor7]

My car is a 1994 1400 SS.

For the last 70,000 miles it has always been oil-checked just like any other car, cold.

As my car is pre-Apollo, I've never had a problem.

This confusion all started with the Apollo, I remember  Len Unwin of CC explaining it thus:

"When I was at Caterham the original dipstick was a modified Rover, which we cut a notch in. When the Apollo came in I noticed that the oil in the sump was very low when the car was running so I recommend to Reg. who designed the Apollo that oil should be checked running i.e. when the Apollo is full. We then made the vvc, which had problems running bearings, but when checked running, the oil was ok, on investigation we found that the vvc dipstick was different to the standard k due to the amount of oil the head retains. I then decided that with all the different combinations that the simplest way was to check all engines the same way with or without Apollo, vvc or standard. So the correct way is: - Use a Caterham dipstick which are now bespoke to the sump, run the car and warm the oil and check when running, in practice you can check with the engine stopped as long as you do it immediately. Those with vvc may also want to rev the car as the head when running at reasonable revs seem to retain an awful lot of oil. The simple test is to check when cold and having not run and then running to see how much the level drops. The thinking being that the oil level should be correct when running, now the standard Rover stick allows for the drop but with a different sump and the fact some cars have Apollo’s I went for one dipstick to avoid confusion and one method for checking for the same reason"

[Toby S]

Thanks all-

Seems to be whilst running once warm or straight after switch off when warm (before all the oil has drained to the sump - never tried checking mine when cold (I guess that would reduce the level from checking when warm) - might see what the difference is, although I'd guess 1/2 a litre or so.

[Dartmoor7]

Toby,

Looking at your posts, your car is a 92 or 93 isn't it?

No dry sump, no Apollo, no Accusump, no anti-cavitation, etc, etc?

If so, check it cold.

If someone has changed your original yellow notched dipstick for a newer one, just fill sump with the recommended amount, dip it cold, and mark the level. That is then your cold level henceforth.

Back in 1999 when this confusion started I emailed CC for clarification:

Q:
Is it true that you now recommend checking oil level on a K-series with the engine running and is this applicable to a 1994 Supersport? Mine has a yellow plastic dipstick with a notch cut in the side which I assume is the correct level?

A:
Jerry, you only need to check the oil with the engine running if you have 
an anti cav tank fitted to your car. Otherwise, you'll be fine.

[Nick Bassett]

On my old 1.4k (wet sump, no Apollo), I always checked the oil when the engine was hot and running - as per the instruction on top of the cam cover.

In 10 years of ownership, never had a problem.

Changed the oil & filter annually, even though I probably only did about 1.2k miles a year!