sjl1 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Hello Trying to add an oil temp feed to water temp gauge to my newish 360r and it has a fancy new caerbont 3/4 deflection temp gauge with a multi pin socket. (Have tapped a water temp sender into the blue finger filter plug) Am i right to assume this works the same as the old 1/4 deflection analog gauges? It has 4 leads going on which i am assuming are analog water temp feed, earth, lighting and associated earth, should be able to work these out with the trusty multimeter but if anyone has a pin layout it would be much appreciated Thanks Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 4, 2018 Member Share Posted February 4, 2018 Have you got the wiring diagram from the Assembly Guide? I think that the new style has the layout. Let me know if you want a copy.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 Thanks, took a look at assemby guide wiring diagram but not very revealing and plug layout is old typemain question is whether these new gauges feed of the standard analog simple temp senders?simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 4, 2018 Member Share Posted February 4, 2018 I'd take a photo of the gauge and ask Caerbont.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 There are 4 wires so guessing they will be ground, 12v ignition, 12v lights and resistance to ground from sender, just need to test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 4, 2018 Member Share Posted February 4, 2018 What colour are the wires?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 If the gauge is like thishttps://caterhamparts.co.uk/gauges/6217-fuel-gauge-base-pack.html?search_query=Water+gauge&results=134Then wiring for fuel and water is as follows so assume oil is the same.these are the very small clip fastened connectors. They have the pin numbers on the body of the plug if you look carefully.Fuel & Temp1= Ignition 2= Not connected 3= Illumination 4= Ground 5= Signal Input this is type of connector “Minor Gauge connector shell 0-0794617-6 6 way Tyco” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The 3/4 gauges are CAN, so they are reacting based on a digital signal on a specific CAN channel. I don’t have a wiring diagram, only for the old gauges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Thanks Chris, yes, helpful, wasnt aware of the CAN protocol, so next question is does this gauge take an analog input for temp senders or has that signal been digitised in an ecu first? Given that these gauges swing the needles at startup i guess it must be digitalSounds like the old fashioned switch bodge to flick between oil and water temp isnt going to work, hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 5, 2018 Member Share Posted February 5, 2018 Sounds as if we need: The CAN bus IDs etc that Caterham are you using. Someone to recommend a monitor/ analyser. A photograph of those gauges to make it easy to spot them. To discover if different senders are used on Can Bus 7s.JonathanPS: CAN bus, from Wikipedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 5, 2018 Member Share Posted February 5, 2018 ... does this gauge take an analog input for temp senders or has that signal been digitised in an ecu first?I don't know if they have changed any of the senders, but the signal goes to a CAN controller.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Looks like there is a digital temp sender specifically for the new CAN bus cars, only hope is if someone knows how to add an additional oil temp sender into the CAN bus wiring loom. Caterham parts dont think it can easily be done, shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 It might be a touch easier than that. I don't think digital senders have replaced the analog units, I think it's analog to the ECU (MBE) and Tacho, and CAN from ECU to Tacho and then to the other instruments. Problem is I have never seen a wiring diagram for the CAN based 3/4 sweep instrument car. The wringing diagrams I have seen all seem to be a little outdated. The startup full sweep is a tell tail sign. I have a CAN decoding scope, but haven't owned a car with CAN instruments, my 2015 kit 360R has 1/4 sweep analog instruments and part of me is happy with the simplicity. When I get my hand on a car with CAN instruments I will decode it. I suspect they have aligned themselves with whatever Suzuki was doing from their ECU to have a consistent set of gauges between cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 So I can see myself doing some Google based research on CAN ID's and seeing how/if the MBE matches up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Guys I don’t think these are CAN based gauges, yes they are electronic and stepper motor driven but not reading a can message. Certainly the ones I linked to previously appear to be identical to the OPs but with a different face. These use exactly the same analogue sender units as the old analogue gauges.the Carebont tech guides show you how to identify the base gauge architecture and the senders to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Aha, thank you, just found the pdf and it suggests a direct feed from sender, so it may work after all. Just after i have stripped sender and feed wire from car, doh! Will give it another go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 My comments are based on comments made by CC during my build in 2016, and http://www.caigauge.com/automotive where they talk about CAN instruments. As I said an up to date wiring diagram would help. Do Caerbont publish pdfs for Caterham gauges, I have only seen documents on the smiths range, which I agree are analog. You don’t get any documentation when you buy a gauge from CC parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 6, 2018 Member Share Posted February 6, 2018 Please could you post the pdf: they show as inline images.ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The pin info I posted on page one was sourced directly from Caebont. I wanted to know the PIN numbers in case wiring colours were different.however the detail is on their website here http://www.caigauge.com/documents//pdfs/pil049-iss1-flt-prsm-52mm-364.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl1 Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 The green and blue wire into the plug is the sender wire which needs to be switched, used a multi meter to work out which is which, all works wellThe wiring doesnt seem to match up with the caerbont tech guide but dont suppose the caterham wiring would be expected to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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