Apollo questions (yawn!!)

[Colin Grundy]

Thought I would get as much done in fitting the system, in particular, the sandwich plate and pipes prior to the engine going in. Thanks to Mav for instructions but if anyone could help clarify a couple of questions please.

 

1) Apparently a certain amount of metal has to be ground away for the plate to fit square. Where exactly does the metal need grinding from?

 

2) at what angle do the pipes need tighting to enable the best run through the alt. belt?

 

3) do you suggest using PTFE tape to ALL connections?

 

4) Have searched the archives, but does anyone have any digi pics available?

 

5) does the engine have to be installed before fitting the Apollo?

 

Thanks in advance

[Bob Corb]

You could fit the sandwich plate and hoses before putting the engine into the car. Less faffing about & much better access. The problem people have been finding recently is that the gap between alternator and block is too small for the pipes to run thought. The EU3 engines alternator is bigger than the earlier EU2 type.

 

I found that I had to remove material from the block at the front corner to make the gap between alternator and block big enough for the hoses to fit through. Once you've done this you can then try fitting the sandwich plate. I found that it would only go in if I revolved it so that the 90° hose bends had to almost touch the block and the hoses were slightly angled to point though the gap. This took a couple of iterations to get right. I found it easier to do with the alternator removed. Once I was happy with the orientation of the plate and the angle of the hoses I took them off together and torqued up the unions on the bench then refitted as an assembly.

 

I did use PTFE on most connections (not the top vent hose, just used red goo on that) and it appears to be oil tight. I dont think there is anything stopping you from fitting the tank mounting in the car pre engine, I wouldn't put the tank in place though, just the brackets as you'll need the access during engine installation.

 

I've got some photos somewhere I'll see if I can dig them out. send me a mail to robert.corbishley@tesco.net and I'll post them by return

 

Bob

 

 

[Peter Carmichael]

I find I only need to take material off at the very sharp corner on the front of the block. I radius this to about 10mm in both directions, giving a rounded corner that won't cut through the hoses.

 

The pipe alignment is something like:

1. Inboard pipe parallel to the block

2. Outboard pipe slanted in towards the inboard one.

 

I don't advise PTFE tape on the pipe fittings as the sealing surfaces are the conical mating faces. The threads themselves should not perform a sealing function and if you are relying on this it means the rest of the fitting is not performing as designed. I use loctite where the male to male fittings go into the sandwich plate to prevent them coming undone if and when you remove the pipes (and some sealing) - I use high strength (Loctite 270 for this). I also tend to use loctite on the sandwich end of the pipe fittings just because I don't want them to come off while they are being forced around the block - Loctite 242 (medium strength) for this. It is really quite important that the sandwich plate centre fitting does not come undone when you unscrew your oil filter at future oil changes for this reason I use high strength loctite (270) on this thread - it is usually contaminated with a bit of oil, so the high strength bit is still readily breakable for necessary maintenance, but it does keep the assembly together when changing oil filters.

 

Similar theory applies to the unions at the Apollo tank end, but there is definitely no need for loctite on the pipe fittings. The male to male unions get fitted with high strength (270)

[Colin Grundy]

Thanks for the replies and thanks for the photos Bob

😬

[Mr Locust]

Which way does the oil go through the filter?

 

(i.e. is it up the middle and out through the sides or vice versa)

 

The reason for the question is: does the apollo tank take filtered or unfiltered oil?

 

Hopefully this would be filtered or it would be a possible rubbish/debris trap.

[CHRIS CLARK]

Be very careful with the steel fittings that actually fit into the ali Apollo can. The top bleed has a steel union with coarse thread into the thinnest of ali nuts welded onto the top. Very easy to over tighten this. Mine was drilled/tapped piss*d from new and always wept oil whatever. JB Weld has cured that problem 😬

[Peter Carmichael]

In through the side. Out through the middle. Apollo tank is before the filter. This is not a problem in practice as the flow through the Apollo tank is rapid for the main oil path. Most/all debris is swept through to the filter.

[Colin Grundy]

An Update,

As Bob rightly pointed out in the thread above, the later EU3 engines are different. The alternator is larger and there needs to be a substantial amount of metal to be removed to allow the pipes to go through the gap between block and alternator bracket. The job was, shall we say,.....challenging!!The pipe is about a mm away from the rear of the alternator!

Also the spark plug cover is different. It lips down over the side of the cam cover and blocks off where the hole is drilled for the breather pipe. A piece approx 1/4" x 1/2" needs to be cut out of the cover to fit over the braided breather pipe. Im praying for no leaks when the engine goes in!

 

[Mr Locust]

I too am hoping for no leaks. But as for removal of metal from the block?? All that appeaered necessary on mine was to slit some polyhose and slip it over the edge of the alternator slotted bracket to cover the hard edge.

[Paul Richards.]

Careful if fitting tank before engine and radiator. Top hose fits alongside apollo tank and you need to make sure there is enough room for it without fouling on bonnet catch. Personally I would leave fitting tank until after engine and rad are in place and you can trial fit with top hose on.

 

Paul R.

C7PPR

K series that starts when hot!!

[mav]

Colin,

 

We did not use PTFE anywhere on Alex's installation. We did however use loctite on most if not all of the fittings.

 

[Colin Grundy]

Thanks for the comments guys. Mr Locust, If yours is a the later EU3 engine then I would be interested to know or see a photo of your installation without the removal of some metal from the block. Paul I only intend fitting the brackets before the engine goes in.

Off to Halfords for some more loctite then.

Regards

Colin

 

[Mr Locust]

Engine's in. Tank's still loose. Keep you posted.

[Mr Locust]

Colin

 

mine went together with the long/nearest the block pipe straight ahead and the other pipe angled towards it as much as possible. The sandwich plate was then rotated such that there is clearance to both the block and the alternator. No grinding required.

 

I used loctite on the filter thread extension piece and padded the alternator bracket with some 'slit' hose.

 

Cheers Ian

 

Edited by - Mr Locust on 23 Feb 2003 18:06:01

[Colin Grundy]

Thanks Ian

I dont know how old your car is, but clearly, as pointed out above the increased size of alternator on the latest engines makes what small gap there was even smaller. It is actually fitted now with 2mm clearance between pipe and alternator. Just keeping my fingers crossed now for a leak free zone when I come to start her up.