Ford axle, Ital wheels !!!!!!

[guilleracing]

 

I am in the process of upgrading my live axle car but want to retain as many of the "Period" looking parts as possible.

 

 

One part of the upgrade is to go for a Ford axle in place of the ital one.

 

I plan to run in some historic events in France next year and would like the peace of mind in knowing the axle won't fail with me far from home!

 

I have discovered that Quaife Engineering can supply blank drive flanges for their English axle conversion kits.

 

I guess some might wonder why you would go to the trouble but it does save on changing a complete set of wheels.

 

It also means that If I ever sell the car, I can revert back to the original parts in as short a time as possible.

 

Big for Quaife Engineering.

 

Greg.

 

 

 

[Roadru77er]

Yes but surely ford stud pattern wheels are easier to source?

[guilleracing]

Maybe in the UK they are but I am on Guernsey and I already have a set plus a spare Ital pattern for the car.

 

(Ultra light magnesium genuine Minilites)

 

I am not really going to want to change those for something else am I ?

 

Plus it means I can keep the same stud pattern front and rear without changing the front hubs. This means I can keep only one spare wheel on the car.

 

 

 

Edited by - guilleracing on 5 Sep 2011 19:26:31

[Phil B]

Hi Greg,

 

Interesting to hear from you that Quaife will supply blank drive flanges, presumably this means you are planning to convert to their group 1 style halfshafts, as these won't fit on a standard 1 piece Ford halfshaft?

 

I have a similar plan, to go from Ital to Ford axle, and with 2 sets of Ital pcd alloys I am also pondering pcd's (they can't touch you for it if the curtains are drawn!).

 

Since the Ford axle is narrower than the Ital unit, about 1.5" I think, I was wondering about using a set of adaptor wheel spacers. I know there will be a few folks around who will say WHAT!?!?!!?, but these adaptors are TUV approved. There are a few companies around who will make them up to your required pcd, the only restriction seems to be a minimum thickness of around 15mm, so 3/4" either side should be fine, and it solves the other question of maintaining the rear track which would be reduced and may affect trailing arm clearance depending on the inset/offset of your current Ital alloys.

Food for thought?

Phil

[guilleracing]

Thanks for the info, I must admit I have not checked the exact width of the axles.

 

We have done many similar projects with Clubmans Sports Racing cars, your idea will work perfectly. I would use 7082 alloy material for the spacer/stud mountings.

 

I plan to put the discs on the outside of the shaft and adjust the width with a spacer as well.

 

Greg.

 

 

[Phil B]

Greg,

 

Which discs and calipers are you thinking of using on the Ford axle? All the kits I have looked at seem to have a limit of 14" wheels due to the combined dimensions of the disc and the caliper. The Sierra calipers weigh a ton, the Golf calipers are light but taller than the Sierra part, and the Wilwood/HiSpec units are more expensive.

I have discs on the Ital axle (James Whitings kit), this uses the Mk1/2 Fiesta disc 221mm OD and Sierra calipers. I did some measuring of the Golf units and you either end up with part of the pad off the disc rim or you have to move to the larger Escort mk3 disc which creates 13" wheel clearance problems.

regards,

Phil

[guilleracing]

Hi Phil,

 

I haven't yet researched this in any great depth but Peugeot 106 rear discs are just the job at 247mm and Ford stud pattern.I have done a number of rear disc set ups with them in the past. For me too there is plenty room to re-drill them 3" 3/4" PCD. Calipers are again a bit of a open subject, I have seen some small ones on a new Audi, probably VW Golf size as well. 13" wheels always cause clearance problems as most new car manufacturers don't use them. I don't think they need to be very powerful as there is no weight on that end of the car. I have looked in the past at go-kart calipers for a hand brake as they are cable operated and you could use a very small caliper for the foot brakes. This would get inside a 13" wheel.

 

 

Greg.

 

[Phil B]

Hello Greg,

 

I doubt that the 247mm disc and caliper will work under a 13" wheel, at least not with the inset I have on mine (6 x 13 all round). Take a look at the Arrow engineering website, http://www.arrowautoengineering.co.uk/page5.htm I don't know what their work is like and haven't spoken to them, but it seems that they may have found a suitable disc for 13" wheels.

The other firm who seems to have a kit, but they don't list it as fitting 13" wheels is Fostek, http://www.fostek.co.uk/cat/gp1index.html

The 3rd place I have been looking is Milton, they specialise in Anglia stuff, they do a bracket kit for £85 and leave you to source Fiesta 239mm disc, but it uses Sierra calipers.

Sorry, as you can see I have been chasing options around for some time and really need to buy a few bits and mock them up.

Phil

[guilleracing]

I can 100% guarantee the 106 discs can be installed inside a 13 inch wheel. I have done this many times. MG Metro calipers work perfectly. You can also use Caterham OE calipers as well. The missing bit is the hand brake mechanism.

 

I am about to order up a new batch of 106 discs to make up a couple of new set ups. I will get some extra discs and do something for the Escort axle.

 

 

Greg.

[Phil B]

Greg,

Thanks, I'm sure you are right but for me the handbrake is the issue. The point of going to discs for me is to save weight relative to drums. For road and occassional trackdays Escort drums would give me the braking power I need on the rear. So I am looking for an alloy caliper with a built in handbrake and a reasonable price. At present the leading contender is the Golf unit, but the downside is its height and shape over the outer edge of the disc.

Phil

[elie boone]

If you use the Ford axle with ital PCD you can simply use long ford studs and a simple spacer, even at the front u can use Ford studs in a Ital hub, just grind an angle on the studs head.

 

An empty Ital axle casing = 126.0cm

Ford axle casing = 123.5cm

 

Citroen XM calipers may be an option but i didn't try'ed it but it think it's worth a look.

[7 wonders of the world]

Intering link, just a thuoght on the citreon XM calipers - does the XM use DOT ot LHM brake fluid if the later you will need to replace the caliper seals with ones suitable for DOT fluid if these can be obtained in the right size / material.

 

[Molecular--Bob]

Was the xm fitted with handbrake calipers on the rear? i thought they were on the front calipers on most Citroens of that age.

[techbod]

Have you looked at MGF discs and hubs? It appears they have the same PCD as the ital (3.75") and are 240mm diameter, so if the pug 106 ones fit under 13" wheels the MGF ones should as well. I'm not sure if the stud size is the same though.

 

Also the MGF rear calipers look quite low profile, have a hand brake mechanism and might be an option?

 

 

Edited by - techbod on 23 Sep 2011 10:59:29