jradley Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Hi, After quite a battle fitting my apollo this weekend it's finally in, but one of the elbows into sandwich plate adapter is leaking..... I fitted the pipes to the plate away from the car and had done them up pretty tight - tighter than those on the tank itself and they don't leak. I did however have to slaken and redo them a couple of times to adjust the angle to get past the alternator and block. How tight can these be done up beofre it's too tight ? Is it likley I have knackered the washer in the elbow fitting or more likely it just needs tightening some more ? Also, do you know what size the nut is - I was using an adjustable spanner to fit them on the bench but this is too big to get in now it's on the car. I think it is possibly 1" but am not sure. If I have to take the sandwich plate off, how much oil will lose ? Cheers, John Edited by - jradley on 1 Mar 2010 16:31:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bowler Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Common problem. Mine leaked when it first went on. Chris @ 7 Workshop has a special spanner ground down so he can tighten it in situ, and I bet the other 7 specialists have too. If you can limp over to Hertfordshire he should be able to sort it quickly. I've just put mine back on, and am hoping it won't leak. I attempted to grind down a spanner too (24mm I think, possibly 26) but ended up doing it on the bench as it still wouldn't fit. How tight? - just half a flat tighter than you have it now. AB Edited by - Alan Bowler on 1 Mar 2010 17:13:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted March 1, 2010 Share Posted March 1, 2010 Where's it leaking - the elbow or the adaptor screwed into the sandwich plate? If it's the adaptor, you probably loosened it when you loosened the elbow - you'll have to loosen the elbow again to be able to tighten the adaptor - if you used new dowty seals on fitting them, it'll probably nip up and seal again now. As for the elbow - they are most likely a conical seal - no washer, so ensure the faces are clean and undamaged, and as tight as it takes to seal - within reason. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Have you used any thread sealant on the fittings ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 Hi, It is definitely leaking from the elbow, bnot the adapater. I didn't use any thread sealant - didn't think I was meant to ? I haven't had chance to look at it yet, but will try and nip it up and see what happens. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Thread sealant on the conical seat fittings (the elbows etc if your's is like my Caterham set up) isn't required. The fittings don't seal on the thread - all the sealant will do is maybe prevent the threads galling. They seal on the conical face and seat of the elbow and adaptor - if it's clean and undamaged, and "square" to each other, it'll seal. You may need two spanners, one on the elbow, one on the adaptor to be able to get enough torque applied. Just on't undo the adaptor, sealing the leak to the fitting and creating one at the adaptor. If you swear any sealant applied to the fittings has sealed them - your's aren't tight enough, clean enough, or are damaged. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Hi, Thanks for the hints folks - I've just come out from under the car and it isn't great news.... I can just about get pliers onto the nut but it seems pretty tight already. However, it seems I didn't take enough of the engine block off and the pipe is just touching the corner of the block that was partially removed. I think that may have put strain on the fitting and hence helped it leak. Either way I don't think it can stay like that so it's going to have to come off so I can remove more of the block and make some more room ☹️ So long as I'm careful to keep the oil clean will I be able to re-use the oil that comes out or should I throw it away and get fresh ? Same for the filter, will that be ok to re-use ? Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Pliers! Spanner/wrench - ie the proper tool. If you don't care about the surface finish on the nut, then stillsons/pipe wrench. But with pliers you are never going to tighten it enough. Loosen the nut, rotate the hose/fitting away from the block, and retighten - you are more worried about it being too close and vibration wearing the hose through than it being pulled away from the adaptor. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Definitely use fresh oil. Drain the old stuff carefully and put it in clean 5L containers then bring round to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Loosen the nut, rotate the hose/fitting away from the block, and retighten - you are more worried about it being too close and vibration wearing the hose through than it being pulled away from the adaptor. I know .... The problem is that on my car the gap between the alternator and block is very small. I already angled the elbows so that the pipes come together and run parallel immediately after the elbow fittings. Even so, I have about 1mm clearance on the alternator on the left and the right hand pipe is touching the block, even though I took about 2mm of it off. That's why I want to take more block off. Actually, I do wonder what that rib where the right pipe fouls is used for, and what the consequences would be of removing quite a lot of it - that whould help a lot, but without knowing I don't want to take too much off. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I took enough off to reveal the location peg hole in the base of the block used in manufacture . . . which was maybe a little too much. Easier to remove the alternator to to the removing and the tightening. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 Thanks again to all for your advise so far. I got the alternator off tonight and can now get a better vierw of what's goin on. I got a photo here I reckon by rotating the sandwich plate I will be able to slacken and re-tighten the leaky hose or if not I'll take it out altogether and put it on the bench. I will definitely need to lose more metal though and I am interested to know what that rib does and how much can disappear before causing problems. Everyone elses I've seen photos of just has a few mm taken off on the corner but I think mine will need to be more drastic - maybe it's because it's an 1.8 If only they made the elbow about 1" longer vertically out the sandwich plate then it would clear that rib anyway, grrrrr. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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