ccconn Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Im thinking of going down the DVA upgrade route for my VVC and wondered if anyone thought if it affected resale values for the worse? Any thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffyracer Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 What I have learnt is that engine swaps don't add value.....a roadsport with an R400 engine and R400 spec will always be seen and valued as a roadpsort, but upgrading the same engine I think enhances its desirability, don't think it necessarily adds value but I doubt it does any harm either especially if it's done by somone that is respected as Dave clearly is, so go for it...EU2 or EU3 btw? C7 YUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccconn Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 Think Dave does two upgrades one with the existing EU2 and then another using the emerald? Looks like 175 and 185bhp respectively Not sure the bank manager will allow the 185bhp as it looks like going to jenveys and dumping the VVC mech Have you any done either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffyracer Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Not done either......the strory behind it is that I bought my EU2 VVC in Dec '07 as it was the best specced car I could afford at the time, what I really wanted was an R400 but i knew the VVC head was tuneable so i got in touch with Dave and sort of agreed to do the K06, but I didn't realise that I bought an EU2 VVC so to go this route also meant changing the pistons and rods and it was starting to get costly and I had a number of other things going on in the background, 1 week later an R500 head came up so I bought it and decided that would be easier than converting my VVC, then 1 week after that an R400 engine came up for sale so I decided to ditch both options and go the easy route of just fitting the R400 engine instead, in the process I managed to upset Dave , I did apologise to him for the hassle but he decided that he didn't want to do any work for me after that so I had the R400 head checked over and the engine transplant done elsewhere with new Jenvey's and an Emerald, the difference was night and day as you'd expect, exactly what I wanted all along I have since also bought a CSR 260 racer and i'm in the process of fitting a Quaife and about to have the engine refreshed so to free up some cash i've reverted back to the VVC in my road car and sold the R400 engine on, so gone full circle! The VVC is a great engine but 170bhp+ is what it needs IMO and Dace seems to be the man for this so if you plan to keep the car then do it. Moral of the story.......buy what you want 1st time around! C7 YUM Edited by - taffyracer on 2 Jan 2010 20:01:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyrill Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 ccconn Oily is doing my VVC upgrade next month - K06: 185bhp+ = bye bye VVC gubbins and hello Jenveys, and Emerald etc. Will let you know what the difference feels like when it's done. *thumbup* Darren C7 SUP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccconn Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Dyrill Has he still got a long waiting list? And yes let me know would be very interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I believe he usually has a long waiting list but worth a call to check, also Dazzled has just had a VVC upgraded there so worth dropping him a mail, I think he is very pleased. Solent Se7ens Web! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyrill Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Has he still got a long waiting list? So I understand,I booked it in with him in the summer but Feb was the earliest I wanted it done so he may well have been able to do it earlier - drop him a line if you are interested. Grubster- Do you know what kit Dazzled went for by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzled Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I went for the following : K06 kit plus..... Verniers Bernard Scouse Airbox EU2 injectors Ported head new valve springs Head peen & skim Head gasket & bolts Valve stem oil seals and a new cambelt tensioner as Oily didn't like the look or feel of the old one plus a few other bits and pieces. It feels like a completely different engine. Much more torque, absolutely flies along or is just as happy to pootle around at low revs. As I built the car I have no intentions of ever selling it so resale values were not a consideration. I can certainly recommend DVA. His workshop may be unconventional ( ie his garage ) but he knows his stuff and is genuinely nice bloke. He is booked up past April I believe but drop him an e mail and ask when he can fit you in our what he thinks is best for your car on your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjmmarsh Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 ccconn - upgrading may make it harder (impossible?) to sell the car through Caterham as they don't like engine mods such as verniers being added. It shouldn't affect sales through other channels though. Worth checking with CC if it matters to you. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 You can keep the VVC mech and fit an Emerald and Jenvey's or RB. I have RB on mine and despite a very leaky bottom end the engine produce close to 160 bhp. the average leak down is in the region of 25% so I might end up with a 200bhp VVC engine 😬 Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 200bhp jack and you'll lunch it. i'd suggest that 190 is about the sensible limit for keeping the vvc mechs. bear in mind that you have a standard bottom end there as well, not a tougher one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I've yet to see a well sorted and / or reasonably powerful engine on TBs which retains the VVC mechs. I've seen a few tries at it but they rarely do much better than the plenum based setups. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 oily is correct. for more powerful setups, especially utilising the potential of the combination of a tough k series and dth throttle bodies to give power at higher revs, the vvc is limited. whilst it retains lots of 'softie drivable' behaviour before and during the cam swingover, the hydraulic nature of the vvc setup limits the possible revs and the rbtb's (for instance) deliver power that is still rising as you hit the limiter. the addition of rbtb's (with no other work) to for instance a vvc 160 engine whilst retaining the mems (albeit a flash updated one) gives a maximum increase of 15% to the torque and power. i suspect marginally more can be achieved with a little help from dva (oily). to an older eu2 vvc engine, the % increase is slightly more due to the lower starting point. having had everything from a 1600ss to a 190bhp vhpd engine in my car, i would say that the vvc-r has been the nicest drive and hasn't needed to be revved to the limit to get power out of it. however, if you're after more power, then ditching the vvc and going with an oily k upgrade is a good idea. remember, the vvc adds another thing to go wrong in your engine, especially if you suffer from low oil pressure or oil starvation. however, i like my setup so i'm being obstinate and sticking with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 p.s. for comparison with Oily's achievements the figures from 2 VVC-R setups VVCR04 - 184.3 bhp@7200 rpm 134.3lbft torque VVCR05 - 182.6 bhp@7200 rpm 134.2lbft torque at 29.92 inches Hg and 60 deg F They are both VVC-160 engines fitted with the caterham vvc-r setup, (roller barrels, inlet matched to rbtb's and flash updated mems). Mine doesn't achieve these figures, though we have found out why and are fixing it with Oily's help. (I'm getting 160.3 bhp and 123lbft on an identical setup which is a bit pants). I believe that his setups achieve more than this by ditching the vvc mechs, using an emerald and putting a bespoke map on the car via a rr mapping session rather than a generic mems setup. (p.s. all academic as Caterham don't sell VVC-R setups any more as they had difficulty in getting them working correctly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 The best of the K06A (stock VVC engine with ported head and improved exhaust cam) setups easily match that for power and beat it for torque which I have always found puzzling. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Me too, given that the rbtb's flow more air and with the adjustable fpr on it, have more fuel going in too..... Hopefully your magic will work a treat on the setup for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom White Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Have tried the Jenvey/VVC combination with DVA 06A Emerald, powerspeed 4-2-1. went both times to Dave Walker results are here. the broken trace is with plenum, and the solid trace with Jenveys. The TB setup tilts the torque curve to give more at the high end at a significant loss at mid range. You would think that the plenum would be better, but I found the TB,s much better to drive with, add to this the induction sound and throttle response and it makes a realy nice package, It's all a matter of taste I suppose. . Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 I'd agree. I've had a variety of plenum/dthtb setups over the years, all in the same car with power varying between 125 and 190bhp and regardless of the figures on the graphs (the peak figures), the roller barrels are a lovely piece of kit and FEEL far better than the plenum setups that I've driven. Looking at the area under the graph may explain why - it's not a very "peaky" graph, but has relatively high figures throughout. Even with my faulty vvc-r, whilst the peak figure was only a little above a megagrad that was there for back to back runs, it had a mountain of a graph whereas mine was a flatline. No idea. All I know is that I like it and with Oily's help, I'm keeping it. If he can squeeze a few extra donkeys out of the setup, then I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 p.s. Oily.... I've had a problem getting messages to AOL addresses recently. Did mine get through and is in the "in" pile, or has it gone wayward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccconn Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Looking at some of the commenst am I right in saying that if you have a EU2 VVc that you must have the pistons repleaced if you go down the K06 route i.e dumping mech, putting in Emerald and cames and verniers I was under the assumption if careful that wouldnt be required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I would say it is a good idea to replace the piston whiles your engine is in pieces. I haven't done it and I wish now I had ☹️ Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyrill Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 When I first enquired Oily said it was okay to leave the pistons with K06 - but If I wanted to head towards 200bhp or above then forged pistons were a must. However the price of doing so was almost the same as the kit again as it requires more than just putting in a set of pistons, so I have decided to leave it for now and then if I want to go for 200bhp plus, go for it at a later date- or sell it and buy a car already there 😬it's getting done next week so I will let you know how it feels afterwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccconn Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Please do Mines in for April will be interested to see what you think Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyrill Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Picked it from Dave this morning. 😬 😬 😬 As everyone says on here - he is a top bloke! The difference is fantastic!Will need to get it mapped properly but even the basic map that Dave has put in the Emerald as part of the K06 kit has transformed the car . Drove back down the M1 laughing every time I floored it.Should have between 185-190 bhp now Can't wait for LLandow! 😬 Edited by - Dyrill on 6 Feb 2010 13:51:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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