anthonym Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 I gather my 2000 R500 ECU an MBE 967 is not so good at dealing with lamda sensor (exhaust) inputs so it is diabled in this regard, despite the car having said sensor. I asked about changing the ECU and was told it is long and complicated (i.e. expensive and time consuming in an already time and budget constrained instant rebuild project). Feeling deprived here, one might say sensored. Anthony edit to correct MBT to MBE edit to add 967 following RJ's/Andy's later posts (thx) Edited by - anthonym on 18 Jul 2009 17:23:42 Edited by - anthonym on 8 Aug 2009 22:07:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Anthony The ECU you should have is an MBE and this can be remapped so there is no need to change. However, to get the best results you need a rolling road session and here in the UK a large number of R3/4/500 owners have used Steve Greenald at Track'n'Road near Rainhan in Essex. He remapped my R500 and it transformed the driveability upping both the power and torque in the low-mid range. Mark D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 interesting, Minister just did my rebuild and commented they have set it for more torque lower down as I said I rarely go into the high rev ranges. I wonder (perhaps read hope) that is a similar thing. Now wondering how I tell. edit: engine and on-car dynos were included. I say "on car" because the dyno bolts to the rear wheel hubs so there is no actual "rolling road" roller set involved - so no rollers loss, which I suppose is quite small, if useful. Edited by - anthonym on 18 Jul 2009 17:29:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Rolling road or bolt on dyno makes no difference. I guess they have timed the cams differently, hence more torque and less power. I'd second Marks comment on remapping the ECU. THe one you have should do the job. Why do you depend on the lambda sensor? I have different maps for various Rx00 engines with different compensation, but usually run one where the lambda feedback is not used. The engine rarely runs at closed loop conditions anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 I have no idea what the lamda sensor does (aside from measure gases I presume), I just like to use all the bits. I have always wondered and been afraid to ask, what is the difference between power and torque? Perhaps I should add I have never understood the explanations so please have a go. edit and what is a closed loop condition? Anthony Edited by - anthonym on 18 Jul 2009 21:55:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Closed loop is when the ecu adjusts the air fuel ratio to alternate around lambda 1 to ensure the catalyst works correctly. This is only done on part throttle at relatively low RPM. The lambda sensor either returns 0v or 1v if the ratio is rich or lean (could be opposite) Power is torque multiplied by RPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 ah and on a second reading I see you mention a cat. My car has no cat - and just passed its MOT which I am very chuffed about. So if no cat then no lamda is relevant? I have this idea I am lucky I have an early model in that as such its emissions figures recorded with vosa are cat less. If I have understood what goes on there. I have been reading wiki and while I can see the equations, I find it difficult to translate them into real life effects. It seems that at low revs in first gear at low speed, then having more torque "lower down" might be a good thing - which would suit me coming out of one hairpin after another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Closed loop is pointless on a race engine. You will melt exhaust valves if you run perfect stoichiometric at full load and high rpm. You need to get the A/F ratio down to about 12 at the top end to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 For petrol Lambda 1 is AFR = 14.7:1 Lambda=AFR:14.7 And Arnie is correct. You don't want to run lean at high RPM. The only reason to run at Lambda 1 it to make the catalyst work, in fact you can easily run leaner at low load and save petrol. Dave Walkers book would be a good guide for you to understand what's going on when mapping a race engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 duly off to Amazon.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 is this the one here ? Engine Management: Optimising Carburettors, Fuel Injection and Ignition Systems (Haynes High-performance Tuning) [illustrated] (Hardcover) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted July 20, 2009 Author Share Posted July 20, 2009 ta - you're up early :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Had to get up at 5 UK time so this is not early. But I checked BC at 1 am too. Couldn't sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 WHich MBE Ecu do I have? Calling on psychic powers perhaps ? It is as far as I know completely standard 2000 R500. edit: which is an MBE 967 Anthony Edited by - anthonym on 2 Dec 2011 00:11:02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Whittle Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Probably a 967 (black casing) like my 1.9K R300. It will look like this MBE 967 ECU EasyMap software is available from here too... I am Leg End... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 The K R500 always came with the 967. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 so. I have ordered da book. I am wondering if my experiences of zero acceleration when flooring it are related to some emergency mode, because it does work if I use half throttle and let it build up and then rev rev rev it to clear it so it seems. The variables seem to be ambient heat and altitude - and how stuck in traffic I have been, or indeed running on just tick-over (that means coasting downhill for ten to 30 minutes) Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 book has arrived 😬 here ? Engine Management: Optimising Carburettors, Fuel Injection and Ignition Systems (Haynes High-performance Tuning) [illustrated] (Hardcover) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 and inside the front cover is: a cd with Emerald M2DK engine mapping software page 9, pic of a Zetec-R engine with throttle bodies in a Seven (or like) good start page 10, leakdown test comments (new race engine) at 100psi hold within 5%, 10%+ investigate - so when mine was 15% back in 2004 and had a top end rebuild, I was being advised with understatement. page 11, explains cold air is denser than warm air (any sailor knows that) AND (my conclusion) this is why an "airbox" allows more power and my foam air filter needs to be oiled - it does?! I had no idea. page 12, rolling road dyno type (as opposed to engine or "on car" types) tyre pressure have significant impact on recorded results - so there's a plus for the "on car" type - there is a potential difference in results from one type or the other. Chapter 2 - Spark Plugs - well I'll go to the foot of our stairs... Edited by - anthonym on 6 Sep 2009 13:41:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Yes, Otherwise fine particles like dust from grit may pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 I've never serviced this item (air filter) , where and what oil do I need? Last time I did this was K&N's in the eighties!This means my air filter has been deteriorating year on year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 this book is priceless and I'm only on page 13. brilliantly timed recommendation, thanks RJ. Edited by - anthonym on 6 Sep 2009 13:46:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 I use the same oil as for the K&N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 good grief, it's nearly a 100 quid. link broke, so deleted, it was to the part in the online shop at www.caterham.co.uk it just doesn't look like it has to be oiled.. why don't I know about this I wonder. Edited by - anthonym on 2 Dec 2011 00:14:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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