Steve Campbell Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hi all, 1997 1.6kss with heater....simple questions .... Just got a new radiator from CC and will be fitting it this week. They have also supplied a new T piece + hose as the radiator has a new connection from the old one....I think the t piece goes between the expansion tank and submarine and this connects to the radiator..... Where do I put the T piece (ie is the above correct, close to submarine / close to expansion tank ? or where ?) Does this modification alter how I bleed the system ? Previously I've jacked the car up at the front, cracked the pipe at the heater, filled until overflowing at heater and then topped up at radiator which was the highest point.....always worked before...how might I do it differently with this new pipe in place ? ..and final question..the Temp sender from the Rad, when I refit it do I just screw it in or does it need some kind of "gunk" 😬 to ensure proper seal ? Thanks Steve Campbell P889 GRR Edited by - steve campbell on 6 Apr 2009 21:34:47 More HELP please...see end of thread.... Edited by - steve campbell on 7 Apr 2009 19:43:46 Edited by - steve campbell on 9 Apr 2009 12:43:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Assume you mean the fan switch - a bit of PTFE tape would probably be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h_____ Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I always used to bleed, as you did, but also opening the nut at the top of the radiator to check no air there, this step is no redundant as the t peice feeds that point back into the reservoir. So continue as normal, its just easier. Note, new rads require different fan legs - cheap, but annoying!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchHare2008 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I built mine with the tee piece connecting the top of the radiator to the top hose on the header tank. Caterham Midlands did the post-build check and chucked away the tee and blanked off the top pipe a couple of inches from the radiator. I know that a couple of years ago when the tee set-up was the standard for K series cars a load of competition (Academy) cars were having problems with air being sucked into the cooling circuit and causing airlocks and over-heating. Midlands decided that the Tee set-up was a contributory factor and ever since have removed it from any car they set-up. May be fine on a road car but I don't really see what the advantage is one the system is properly filled and bled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hmmmm....mine was the original late 90's set-up with the older radiator that did not have this "enhancement". Anyone know why Caterham have changed the design of the radiaotors then ? I do a few track days a year (1st one on 24th April) so don't want any problems ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 As per MarchHare for me too. Small take off from head -> small take off on expansion bottle. Small take off from rad -> short piece of fuel pipe, blocked with bolt and zip tie - can use this to bleed if needed. Otherwise, same old... Lift up front, massage away, spill coolant EVERYWHERE, discover stat still doesn't open, massage some more, spill more coolant, massage a bit more. Enjoy! John _________________________ Bugsy: '82 2cv6 (Back on the road!!! 😬) Talloulah: '08 1.6K Classic (Grubby ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hmmmm...ok ..got the rad home tonight and trying to fit it : 1) I have the new fan legs..fitted. Fan fits flush / tight up to the radiator...not sure it did this on the old one...I think there was a gap of couple of mm held by the longer legs.......any comments..might get the old one back out and see 2) Caterham have also supplied 8 shiny aluminium spacer washers....the fan is VERY tight fit so presume the spacers are for the radiator "legs" to give some clearance of the fan from the front suspension thingy (anti roll bar ?) ...spot the numpty who didn't build his car 😬 3) New arms are just plastic...old ones had captive nuts..so now I've got to go and find 4 new nuts .....and too late tonight to find them..GRRRRRRRRR 4) Still interested in this T piece...why would C supply radiator with new design ? What was the reason and why are they still supplying it (further advice welcome). If I do fit it...presume T piece pointing down, run the pipe under the expansion tank to radiator...? Any tother suggestions...I can now wait until tomorrow seeing as I can't fit the fan anyway ...doh.... Steve Campbell P889 GRR Edited by - Steve Campbell on 6 Apr 2009 18:56:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Bin the t-piece. Don't need it. John _________________________ Bugsy: '82 2cv6 (Back on the road!!! 😬) Talloulah: '08 1.6K Classic (Grubby ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchHare2008 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Re the T piece; feel free to use it. my take on it is as follows. The modified radiator with the small take off pipe rather than bleed screw was introduced fairly late on in the life cycle of the k series. The factory probably has relatively little experience of fitting it in new builds. In theory it's an improvement, it is designed to allow air trapped in the top of the radiator to escape into the header tank and it should remove the need to manually bleed the rad. All fine in theory and maybe all fine in practice. However during the 2006 and 2007 Academy race series (the last years with K series engines) Caterham experienced problems with engines overheating and they diagnosed air-locks in the cooling system as a likely cause. They decided to eliminate the introduction of the T piece into the system as a possible cause and removed it from all the race cars. It seemed to do the trick. Consequently Caterham Midlands now routinely remove the T piece from cars they work on. In conclusion you could use it and it might work fine and save you some bleeding time (!) but if you plan on using the car on track, well, why take the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 Many thanks all. T piece binned into the "bits and bobs box" in the garage. Now hunting for a bolt to block up the pipe 😬 Any other comments on Q1 & 2 ? I guess I'll just have to try it and see.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 I had a few issues with cooling... Ask James at CC Dartford! After the omission of the tee-piece, it was all hunky dory! The latest build manual (available on CC website) details the install of the new radiator - it's the same as used on the Sigma - and makes no mention of the spacers you say you have... I can have a look tonight, but if the fan is secure and not hitting the rad, you look good to go (to me anyway, no qualifications here!). Would using the spacers not just push the fan towards the ARB? John _________________________ Bugsy: '82 2cv6 (Back on the road!!! 😬) Talloulah: '08 1.6K Classic (Grubby ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 John, perhaps I didn't describe well. I was thinking the spacers might be for the radiator connectors, not the fan legs. With the radiator on, the fan sits tight against the ARB...so putting the spacers in on the rubber bushes will move the radiator forwards a few mm...... does that make sense ? The fan cowling is TIGHT against the radiator....and pretty tight against the ARB at the back (it was a fiddle to put it on as I'd already fastened up the radiator which I had to slacken off to get the fan in)....not sure about the actual fan...will need to take a look tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchHare2008 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 The fan will sit tight against the rad. this is fine, assuming there is nothing restricting it running. It should not be tight against the ARB though. Use the spacers to move the radiator forward. From memory the radiator mounts on to 4 bobbins. There were two spacers, one on each side of the bobbin, to create the required clearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Makes perfect sense now!!! Yes the spacers go either side of each bobbin! Durrrrrr I can be special sometimes 😬 John _________________________ Bugsy: '82 2cv6 (Back on the road!!! 😬) Talloulah: '08 1.6K Classic (Grubby ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 OK..more help please. Radiator fitted (with no T piece). Bled the system (front of the car up, top up from expansion tank until ~3/4 full + joggling the J hose a lot, break into top heater hose and top up there until full and reconnect, finally top up from top of radiator bleed that I now have ~ 5 inch of hose then when full, block). Start -up and watch T carefully...all goes well, between 80- 90 the bottom rad hose starts to get warm and then fan cuts in on rad...T < 90 all the time. Great...take it for a 5 minute run...all is well T <90. Stop back at home, leave it running, check the oil...glance at T gauge...100 and climbing slowly ! Bottom hose now cold ! Doh. Do I just need to re-bleed...what is going on here ?? Too dark tonight to carry on but I thought it was sorted ! Steve Campbell P889 GRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Could just be that a bubble has made it's way round to the stat. Jack it up again, and see if the massaging trick works? You may find that some air makes its way to the expansion tank? John _________________________ Bugsy: '82 2cv6 (Back on the road!!! 😬) Talloulah: '08 1.6K Classic (Grubby ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Fixed and MOT passed this morning. Thanks all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myothercarsa2cv Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Well done Steve, sorry for my complete specialness with the spacers! Glad it's all sorted. Secret is to now not touch ANYTHING EVER again. Unless, of course, absolutely necessary! John _________________________ Bugsy: '82 2cv6 (Back on the road!!! 😬) Talloulah: '08 1.6K Classic (Grubby ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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