Stuart McGill Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Apologies because I know this has been done to death before but I am STILL struggling! I have the Anglesey track day coming up on Friday to so only tonight and tomorrow evening (last resort) to sort out. Here goes: Over the last month the water temp has never moved more than about 80 degrees or so. On Sunday I/ we drained the coolant, fitted a heater, fitted a bleed T and then re filled the system. Everything appeared to be getting hot apart from the bottom hose out of the radiator to the stat but this did get warm (ish). Tried jacking up etc, thought it was solved but no. On a motorway stays at 80 but quickly rises in slow traffic or traffic lights to 100 or so. Attempt 2 (last night, with much thanks to Stu F): Drained system, drilled 1mm hole in stat. Refilled, jacked up etc. Bottom hose got hot, temperature still yoyoing though. Thought it would settle on a drive. 15 miles down motorway constant 80, off motorway at traffic lights temperature shoots up to 100. Bottom hose is stone cold. Any suggestions other than jacking up, massaging pipes, bleed tee, hole in stat etc? Getting to the end of my tether as Anglesey is comign up on Friday and at this rate i'm nto going to be able to do it. Thanks, Stuart Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_K Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Where are you refilling the coolant? Where am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart McGill Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Header tank to start with until it stops taking any more. Then through bleed T untill its coming out of the radiator bleed screw. Bleed screw on and then continue filling through Tee. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I know they don't fail that regularly, but is the stat working properly? Easy enough to get a replacement from Halfords just in case... www.mycaterham.com here Videos here 102,000 miles car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Stuart Have you fitted a replacement heater or put a heater in - ie have you changed the plumbing? Or is it the 1st time you've drained the system. If changed plumbing try reverting to origional that could be the problem - but bear in mind all engines will get hotter when sat in traffic with low pump speeds and less air flow. What about the heater v/v have you reconnected in the right order? don't forget it should give you some bypass. Check all your pipes run up hill ie allow natural venting. When you recharge the system do so with ALL bleed points open and do it very slowly. I allways put the heater v/v in the 1/2 open position to allow water and air to vent through the heater matrix. After filling give it a couple of short runs to check that you've flushed all the air pockets out and recheck levels. Good luck Paul M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart McGill Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Paul, Yes, I have added a heater into the system that was not there before..... There is plenty of water circulating around the heater etc. The problem seems to be the hose on the radiator side of the stat although I see where your coming from asking what I have changed etc.... Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I would guess that your fan isn't working. To me, the fact temps are fine when travelling, ie when air is passing through the radiator, would indicate the cooling system is doing what it's supposed to. Stop, the air flow stops, fan not working, and up go the temps. Bypass the fan switch and make the fan run all the time. Stat, if working, should keep temps constant on the move and stationary. I have a PRT stat, the outer section of the original stat in the original place and a bleed tee - I simply fill the expansion bottle to the brim and keep it brimed - tighten the rad bleed when coolant comes out, brim the bottle again so coolant comes out the bleed - replace tee cap. Replace cap on expansion bottle. Drive. Temps nailed to 82 C. Bri Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted October 8, 2008 Leadership Team Share Posted October 8, 2008 The fan's working fine. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Locust Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Dodgy gauge sender? (Worth checking with an infra red thermometer gun on the top hose). Bleeding is helped significantly by a minor re-plumb but that doesn't mean that the standard system can't be made to work. Ian Green and Silver Roadsport 😬 or Mrs Locust's Blue Roadsport Academy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted October 8, 2008 Leadership Team Share Posted October 8, 2008 Latest from Stuart this evening ..... He's managed to get another 350ml of coolant in via the bleed-T (fitted in the water-rail to heater hose) and quite a lot of air spat-back. It sounds like it may have been air trapped in the heater causing havoc with the bypass flow. So far so good Stu. Joint Area Representative MAD Sevens (Merseyside And District) www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart McGill Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 As Stu says above all is looking . I'd like to be able to give a detailed guide as to how to do it but I can't and I don't plan on redoing it any time soon! The new heater obviously didn't help the problem and the fact that that the two hoses going into the heater were both very hot was slightly misleading. I'd have expecting them to be cooler if there was an air lock here but this was not the case. I'd also fitted a bleed T and this was crucial to diagnosing this problem and filling from here to get rid of the air. If the bleed T was not there I suspect the air lock would still be there. Anyway, many thanks to all, in particular Stu F who spent hours working on it last night. Cheers Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naddy Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Sounds like it may be sorted but while i'm here... my two favourite bleeding k-series threads are here and here Specifically the StuF post on the first link and the Peter Carmichael post on the second link - especially the bit about manipulating the lower hose a lot, and then some more... Since Stu is already on the case, then this may not be much extra help, but i noticed that vigorous & prolonged lower hose manipulation (oo-err 😳) had not had a mention on this thread and I found it very useful to get loads of air out each time i did mine, whilst following Stu's method good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I have found the 1600/1800 engines relatively easy to fill and bleed, using the various methods described above, but the early 1400 is near on impossible! My long term final solution to this has been to fit a top hose QED remote themostat with a secondary bypass from stat to submarine pipe, and take out the original inlet thermostat. I know that doesn't help much before Friday, and sounds you may have it sorted . I will be at Anglesey on Friday if you need any help Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted October 8, 2008 Leadership Team Share Posted October 8, 2008 Nick - you need to get out more! The more I think about the history of bleeding/swapping the coolant in my own car(s), the more I'm convinced that heaters are the biggest cause of problems. I've never had an issue with air locks on either car - when there's just a bypass pipe and no heater. A bleed tee at the high point of the bypass pipe makes a coolant swap really easy. The one time I did have a problem was during the short period that I had a heater fitted ........ and the problem had symptoms identical to what Stuart's experienced. Satan's radiator! Stu. Joint Area Representative MAD Sevens (Merseyside And District) www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_K Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Stuart M - am really glad you got it sorted I for one would be interested to hear how you thought the problem came about. My heater matrix developed a leak and so is currently plumbed out, but I will need to refit one this winter. Being at the top of the system, I guess it's easy to get air trapped in it! Well done though, enjoy your track day tomorrow Where am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted October 9, 2008 Area Representative Share Posted October 9, 2008 Just to add I'm glad it's sorted - I was trying to rearrange my day today to fit an hour in to help - thankfully that's not necessary. Malcolm - I agree - for some reason 1400 k seems to be a real pig. I remember ending up sucking and blowing down every hose in an effort to finally bleed a 1400. Stu F. - I think you are probably correct, a heater can cause a problem. If you think about it, the bleed T is the highest point an the engine and heater are either side of it and a little lower. I suspect that air is easily trapped in the heater. It's clearly necessary to ensure the heater valve is fully open during bleeding. Perhaps when fitting a heater it would be advisable to fill the heater separately and ensure that there is no air in it before connecting to rest of system. Paul Richards Area Representative - L.A.D.S. (Lancashire and District Sevens) LADS Website Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team c7trp Posted October 9, 2008 Support Team Share Posted October 9, 2008 Glad its sorted Stuart I think raising the front of the car helps as this assists in forcing the air out of the heater matrix towards the bleed T. The heater matrix is near enough horizontal when the car is level, so its easier for air to get trapped in it - by tilting a few degrees it helps the air bubbles move towards the bleed T Also helps clearing the air locks in the j-hose. Having silicone hoses really helps with all the squeezing 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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