Danny123 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Im new to caterhams etc and have only had one for about a month, so i think im at the start of a big learning curve. The top radiator hose was split around the hose clip so i was loosing water. I decided to replace all the hoses including the heater hoses as they all looked a bit old. I tried to get as much air out as i could when filling it back up by leaving the engine running and sqeezing the pipes, but since then i have done 2 seperate 50mile round trips and on both occasions, have checked the water the day after, only to find it needed a couple of pints of water again on both occasions. Is this still air in the system working its way round? or do i have a bigger issue? is so is there anything i can check my self before i have to shell money out at a garage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashaughnessy Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I presume you don't have a sealed system with pressurised header tank? Jacking the car up to a great height at each end in turn is a big help in dislodging recalcitrant bubbles, especially in conjunction with giving the hoses a good squeeze at the same time. It would be useful to do this while the engine is fully hot (thermostat open) but this means you won't be able to take off the filler cap, so it might be useful to do the jacking up and squeezing several times with both hot and cold engines, topping up when cold. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskip Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 It is worth checking that there isn't air in the Rad. On my Ali Rad there is a bolt in the top. This can be used to let the air out as you fill with water. You have to be quick to get the bolt back in when the rad is full! Then continue to fill the rest of the system and squeeze the pipes. This normally works. Also worth making sure that the catch tank has water in it. It should be above the bottom of the pipe into the catch tank. Theory being that when water expands into the tank (hot) it will be sucked back into the system when it cools. Skip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashaughnessy Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 That's the theory but I'm not sure it works very well in practice with a crossflow caterham. That's why I converted to a pressurised header tank system, which has been far more reliable for me. Anthony Edited by - ashaughnessy on 9 Sep 2008 14:49:30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny123 Posted September 9, 2008 Author Share Posted September 9, 2008 Thanks for the advise so far. I will give it a try when the weathers a bit better. My system has a new rad and with new hoses and it seems to have 2 expansion bottles. One from the filler neck and one that comes from next to "bottem" radiator hose connection. As i said before, im new to caterhams and a begginer mechanic so the advise is appreaciated. Im obviously just worried incase its not an air issue and theres a bigger problem with the head etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Danny123 What coolant/anti freeze are you using and how much please? Did you just replace lost fluid with water or more water and coolant? FreeRange7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny123 Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 Im just using halfords advanced anti freeze after advice from a mechanic. all the hoses have been changed so the system was empty to start with. i would imagine the mix is about 10% antifreeze to 90% water. oh and re: the advise above about jacking up the car... it really does work. Loads more air out the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny123 Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 oh and i have been replacing the lost coolant with more coolant / water mix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Drain the system Put the front wheels on ramps , then fill slowly until full. Should eliminate any airlocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Drain the system Put the front wheels on ramps , then fill slowly until full. Should eliminate any airlocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Drain the system Put the front wheels on ramps , then fill slowly until full. Should eliminate any airlocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rishy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I was never happy with the cooling system on my x-flow until I changed to a sealed system. With the open system I found it best to jack the car up as high as possible at the front, fill the heater from the hose that attaches to the inlet manifold, fill the rad from the top hose, plumb back together and fill the system from the filler cap. Squeeze hoses as you go. Once its full it will inevitably chuck out some into the expansion tank on your first run out to full temp !! But it doesn't suck it back on cooling, hence the need to keep topping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny123 Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 Thats interesting as i think i may have the expansion tank issue your talking about. Could you point me in the direction for information on Sealed systems? i haven't heard of this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashaughnessy Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 The sealed system conversion replaces the existing filler cap (which is mounted in the thermostat housing) with a blind thermostat housing (or rather, one that doesn't have a big hole on top covered by a cap) and changes the plumbing so that there is a water tank at the "top" of the system, i.e. higher up than everything else, that has a pressurised filler cap. The current system relies on the filler cap letting water out when there is excess pressure, the water being caught in a catch tank, and sucking the water back in when the pressure reduces. However, it doesn't appear to work well in practice and the net result is constant water loss. The sealed system simply pushes the water upwards to the sealed header tank. This is only half full, so when the pressure rises, it is air that escapes from the pressurised filler cap instead of water. When the pressure reduces, it doesn't really matter what happens - either air is sucked back in or the system pressure is reduced, but no water is lost - the water level simply rises and falls instead of being spat out and failing to be sucked back in again. This has two very distinct advantages - one, you don't lose water and two, the fan switch is always covered by water. In the old system, the water level would easily drop below the level of the fan switch, which means the electric fan stops working. The new system doesn't allow this as the sealed header tank is above the fan switch level so the water level doesn't drop this low even if (somehow) a good amount of water is lost. You can buy kits to do the conversion and they're not hard to fit. I bought mine from Roger King but I think he's retired so I don't know if he still does them. A blatchat search should show a number of old posts relating to this. You still need to check the water level regularly, but you should find that you need very little topping up. Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I asked because when most people have a problem they are reluctant to replace the antifreeze due to the cost if they are going to be loosing it until the problem is fixed, the antifreeze is a coolant and without it you will increase the loss of water as it will boil and escape through the pressure cap. The mix is normally about a 33% quality antifreeze to 66% water so 10% still seems very low to me. Also it is worth making sure the heater if you have one is open so you get to fill the hole system. Hope this helps. FreeRange7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Recent header tank conversion to my 'Vulcan' (loud and hot) X-flow by James Whiting 7's has tamed my temp worries.He'll supply the parts and advise accordingly. See his advert in Low Flying (inside front cover). 'Go on do that thing when your carbs catch fire' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny123 Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Phil, thanks for the advise. There wasn't anything on the bottle or website to indicate how much i need to put in so decided on the smaller amount, just to be cautious. Will increase it on your advise. Unfortunately though i seem to have another leak. I had the engine running for 10 mins last night with the heater on full before i took it for a spin and when reversing off the driveway, i got my legs soaked in warm water. didn't happen again whilst driving it but the amount was like a cup full of water. funnily enough when i checked the water this morning there was about a cup full missing. I think theres something wrong with the heater? All the hoses are brand new so i must have broken something when fitting them. I am sort of tempted if there is a problem with the heater, just to get rid of it completely. Does it really have any place being in a 7 anyway? might save a couple of pound in weight :-) Thanks for that Steve, i will look them up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny123 Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Phil, thanks for the advise. There wasn't anything on the bottle or website to indicate how much i need to put in so decided on the smaller amount, just to be cautious. Will increase it on your advise. Unfortunately though i seem to have another leak. I had the engine running for 10 mins last night with the heater on full before i took it for a spin, and when reversing off the driveway i got my legs soaked in warm water. didn't happen again whilst driving it but the amount was like a cup full of water. funnily enough when i checked the water this morning there was about a cup full missing. the hoses are band new so i must have broke something when fitting them. I am tempted just to take the heater out completely if theres a problem with it. Does a heater really have any place being in a 7? not sure i will ever use it. Thanks for that Steve, i will look them up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 You could for the moment just join the two hoses together, bypass the heater to see if this is the cause of the problem. Good luck. FreeRange7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Danny, I've got a crossflow with sealed cooling system set-up in Oswestry - feel free to give me a call and/or call by to have a look any time you like 01691 679351 / 07717 405 496 Dave. X-flow or Vx. Not a bad choice every morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny123 Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 Dave, thanks for that, i am interested to see what its like before i buy it so may give you call towards the end of the week. haven't been to Oswestry for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 From my experience with xflows, to lose 4 pints over 100 miles is extremely excessive and I would double check all hose clips for security and look for any signs of new coolant loss. The whole system only takes about 4 litres (8 pints) so a 50% top-up cannot be attributed to airlocks. I am assuming that you had the heater control valve open when you were filling the system and that you had the engine running to check for the thermostat opening. Cheers, Graham ------ Low tech luddite - xflow and proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Unpressurised ones are normally are pretty easy to fill and top up and settle down quickly- none of the dangers of the K series bleeding saga unless you run it to very high temps with no water in... I drove my first 7 without the rad cap once - coolant on the screen was the first sign once the water was upto temp. I stopped and tie wrapped rag over the filler as had nothing else with m and drove home slowly. Filled up and capped it (I'd left the cap off in the garage on my hurry to get going), then off for a problem free track evening. Add lightness, says the man with a VX :-) My 2002/2003 racing pics here General pics (mostly of 7's and cars). here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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